Scene #5200: 2346=Vying for the Eclipse of the Sun-3

Owner	Pose
Priscilla	To be brief, (relatively) trusted allies of Lordran's core leadership have been told that the Lordsblade herself wishes to show them something, pending a violent, magical altercation in the streets. It isn't clear what, or why, and it certainly wasn't clear when, until now. Being lead up the mountain, through the nearly sun-bleached rocks, around winding paths through the shadows, and into some sort of plateau out behind the Royal Archives, that might once have been a courtyard, before it was overtaken by the malignant growth of crystal that has still yet to be expunged from the 'back yard', is probably not what one would expect. Nor is being lead into the grand building itself through a sliding steel ladder dropped from a section of moved wall set high into it. Behind that, is a study room without any source of light save the sun filtering through the hole just big enough to crawl through. It appears to have no actual entrances or exits elsewise, which could explain why, sat at one end of a long, dusty table, a mummified corpse in blue robes is clutching a thick book open in its lap. That's the lovely little space everyone gets to gather their things and their thoughts, with an ivory mask pretty much hovering in the corner, for lack of ability to see anything else about Ciaran.
Reiji Arisu	It's been a while since Reiji Arisu has been in Lordran. That isn't to say he hasn't been keeping tabs on things, but certain... other business has been occupying his time. The children, you see, have learned to walk. And open doors. Reiji makes his way into the murk and the darkness from the tight hole in the wall. He grimaces briefly at the withered corpse at one end of the table, though notably not at the book he's cradling. But as far as he knows, that's not who they've all come here to see. No, that belongs to the blue mask floating in the dark. "Lordsblade," Reiji says with a slight incline of his head. "You summoned us?"
Xiaomu	If it's been a while since Reiji was here, it's been even longer since Xiaomu's poked her head in - but the sage fox makes her way in behind Reiji, murmuring a brief prayer at the sight (and smell) of the ancient corpse at the table. The carrypack across her back makes getting through that hole just a little more interesting ... but she's somewhat smaller than Reiji, so it's not that big a deal. She's letting Reiji do the talking for now, although Xiaomu does incline her head politely to the hovering mask.
Kushiko	For what it's worth, Kushiko did trust and liked working with the Lordsblade at present, and thus put a little more weight to her words than most might simply due to working with her in the past. And frankly, understanding the need she had back then when they took care of that little job. And how /that/ later connected to events here... it was those things that she was actually thinking about, even as she moved through Valkyr. That, and after the last incident here, not even the Lotus was going to ask her not to come. She had guided Nova Prime to remain somewhat on the outskirts of things, electing chiefly to be 'Valkyr' as it were, but she was privately observing and taking in the sight, as it were. When others had begun to arrive, she inclined her head, the Warframe as noiseless--and faceless--as ever, only a faint strobing of lilac energy visible along some of the contours of her technorganic frame. <"Reiji. Xiaomu."> comes Kushiko's odd little voice, sound without presence as a projection. She was floating, in a sense--in a meditative lotus position about three feet off the ground while she waited for others to arrive; which by her reckoning wouldn't be long.
Staren	Even for a social call, Staren decides to wear his armor. You know, in case riots break out or something. Those he knows get friendly nods, while he looks curiously at the mummy with the book, expectently. Surely they'll explain why they were asked here soon enough...
Guest Psyber	Psyber is here! The half-angel had become less and less actively seen since taking his business fully independant and juggling the constant busy-matters that came with it. Not to mention attempting to plan a wedding with the Multiverse's most prolific control freak didn't make life easier. Still. He's here. He's also eating an egg salad sandwich, though it's not comically large or disruptive, but normal sized and delicious.
Priscilla	o be fair, there isn't a whole lot to smell. It's mostly dust. Some of that dust may be a dead guy, but there's no gross stains to indicate that he ever rotted away at any point. How he even got in here is a bit of a mystery. "Indeed I did." so speaketh the mask. When Psyber comes through as the last person, something loudly clicks, and the ladder slides back up on its own and the flagstone closes behind that. Who knows how that works, without any gears or chains, and certainly no servos. "You understand, surely, that what I am about to show you, and what we are about to discuss, holds secrecy as paramount. Should my judgement in this matter of informing you prove faulty, it would be rightful grounds for my death". Another clunk. A big chunk of the opposite wall pops out, and slides aside. This time it's a bookshelf, in classic mystery fashion. The lever Ciaran must have pulled, however, is nowhere in sight. One can imagine how it could be possible to get trapped in here after finding a sneaky corner to take books to. Stepping outward doesn't lead into the library halls, however. It leads only into more, dark, maze-like corridors of wooden floors and endless bookshelves, without windows or doors; a library in the walls of the library. It's more stairs and ladders and even one of those weird, autonomous medieval elevators downwards (granted, a fancy gilded gold one), to a degree of Rube Goldberg switches behind buttons behind levers behind fake books you tilt off the shelf that is actually impressively frustrating. On the way down a shiny gold elevator, in lieu of any music, unless you count the steady, echoing grinding up the increasingly long basalt shaft, Ciaran thinks to ask a single question before they arrive where she intends to take them. "How much do you know of Miracles?"
Tomoe	So here we are, she's been called in again to help. There was something the Lordsblade wants to show them something. They have not said what, but well she's not going to brush this off and so the Iron Lily is here to see what they have to see along with everyone else. It was goo to see that Reiji is noticed as she herself arrives. It's been a while since she's seen him here. It was good to see him as the Iron Lily gave him a look for a moment. Soon as he shows up Xiaomu is there as well and she too gets a brief greeting from Tomoe. The Tenno gets a nods. Tenno good to see you here too. Psyber and Staren also get greetings as well but soon Tomoe hushes down. "I have heard your call, yes I understand I am not to speak ont his outside of here." She stops for a moment and now moves to follow up everyone else as they are shown in. "I only know what I have experianced it's strange to see people who see myself as such for me."
Staren	A maze of twisty passages... Staren hopes his suit's inertial navigation system and mapping software work accurately here. "Miracles? ...If you mean the process by which those people are turning into gargoyles, and others are imitating us... I just know that it happens. I theorize that in this world, strong faith can give you power, but I haven't done any experiments..."
Kushiko	Valkyr bobs her head slightly, and goes from simply floating a little in that meditative posture, to standing evenly as if she'd slid off of some invisible point in order to follow after the Lordsblade. <"We understand."> It is not that she speaks for everyone. That's just how Kushiko speaks. In the meantime, she's taking quiet stock of where they're being led to; it's just as well she has no sense of smell--not really at least--anyways. In the darkness, the Warframe sometimes seems to just being glowing lines and points in shadow. A little bit spooky, all told, the clawtips of her hands and taloned feet being among them asides her head and the 'wings' of her back. Once upon the elevator--after that startling series of machinery, she finds herself speaking up to Ciaran's question. <"Only that is is in some way a power 'given' by those that you'd consider gods."> Kushiko offers. But it isn't everything, she expects. That belief is probably a huge part of it all told, just as much as anyone might be able to give them.
Reiji Arisu	Having Xiaomu here is reassuring for a several reasons, up to and including just having another good gun along. The exorcist glances up as the ladder slides away. Trapped here, is it? Reiji pauses, drawing his longest blade-- not for battle, but just for... Well, for lighting, to be honest. Karin ignites, burning like a torch to shed some light into the otherwise bleak surroundings. "When you say Miracles," Reiji says, following the Lordsblade into the darkness. "I assume you mean the ones used in Lordran, not simply the general form of the word. I know that they're stories, verses which allow one to harness one's faith to access the power described by the scriptures. Sometimes that means using power similar to that of the gods; other times, it means harnessing the legends of heroes." "Have you found something, Lordsblade?" Reiji's brow furrows. "A story that shouldn't be known?"
Xiaomu	Just how the ladder and flagstone did their thing, Xiaomu isn't sure; the sudden grinding makes her ears perk up sharply, but the only thing she really hears more clearly at that point is the secret bookcase door. Interesting. The sage fox boards the elevator along with the others, her senses generally alert now. This is a side to Lordran's mysteries that she hasn't experienced before, and she's paying a lot more attention to her surroundings now, not just strolling along with Reiji like she had been. In response to Ciaran's question, Xiaomu tilts her head slightly. "Most of what I know about 'miracles' -" And it's almost audibly lowercase instead of capitalized. "- is that they're when the impossible happens despite all known science, typically due to the actions of something spiritual. Not like a ghost or youkai, but something at the divine level .... or, in some cases, unholy rather than holy. Are you talking about something more specific to Lordran?" she adds, wondering briefly if any of the fights to bring about Lordran's rebirth might technically count ... Eh, probably not. In any case, Xiaomu doesn't seem to feel the need to pull an extra light out. Then again, fox, night vision. Maybe.
Guest Psyber	"They're the supernatural abilities that seem to manifest themselves through belief in or emulation of supernatural figures in the cosmology of this world, correct?" Psyber asks to the individual, looking unusually on point today in terms of asking questions. "The more faith an individual has in both religion and in the figure they are studying, as well as the more the worlds framework as a whole holds them as a God-like entity, the more powerful abilities the believer is able to emulate in an analagous fashion to that person."
Priscilla	"These are all fragmentary truths. You have not been lead astray in your observations, or at least by those who would wish to explain to you. They are correct, all of them, but do not encompass its entirety. That is unsurprising. Few even amongst the gods themselves understand the true workings of what they take for granted as divine, and what can only be unholy." says Ciaran, blankly watching the stone walls go by. It's sort of weird to think that out of all the knights here, the only face anyone has seen has been Gough's. The elevator arrives at its destination, clearly deep beneath the earth, or more accurately, within the mountain. This isn't an uncommon place to be in Lordran, for how frequently it is that things of importance wind up buried or hidden below, but for once, it is an intentionally built and designed room. The only lights are a handful of sconces that bear head-sized chunks of the little light crystals that pilgrims are often seen with, which are just enough to see by, and just enough to cast four different shadows every which way from everything. It's nor enormous, all things considered. Just big enough for a native to stand in and move about like a walk-in closet for a huge person. As the rest of the archives, it plays host to a number of books both small and extremely large, but it is a very limited collection, and kept alongside even more archaic things, such as stone slabs scratched with angular runes. The center is all but clear, dominated only by an exquisitely sculpted statue atop an octagonal plinth. The statue depicts, in incredible detail, Lord Gwyn in his prime, accurate in every respect to the one some here had met, save for the fact that he is both unburnt, and smiling. He holds out an ornate crown to a figure kneeling before him. This one is equally detailed, and impossible to mistake: a naked, skeletal Hollow, sunken eye sockets and all. The artist has clearly seen both first hand, even though they never existed in the same time period. "It is as you have said. A miracle is passed on through the form of great tales worthy of their magnitude in history. No matter their origin, the faith of the one who takes them to heart will greatly affect the power they are able to call upon in need. These tales follow the gods, and those once fit to stand amongst them, and as such, defy all laws known to philosophers, sorcerers, and even witches. It is, then, easy to confuse these things as the same, and those of the ancient past have taken great pains to ensure that time has done so." Ciaran steps off first, circling the perimeter of the room with one finger extended to just an inch away from the books, before alighting on one tome in particular. Pulling it off the shelf, she presses some kind of signet ring to its buckle, and it opens readily. Bringing it back over, she shows the group an entire two pages covered in sprawling rows of runic script, hand-written old golden parchment. From a pocket in her blue cloak, she draws out a much newer, yet more weathered sheet, written on yellowed paper. Pressing it to one half of the book, one can immediately see that the page she had unfolded contains almost the exact same content as the page she had put it next to, but much less of it, and arranged with different breaks. "This is one page of a record dating back to the war against the Dragons, which details the campaign of Gwyn's first born son, and the methods he devised of wielding divine lightning to defeat them. The other you see here, is what pilgrims and clerics today recite in his name, and have imitated him for hundreds of years without ever knowing his name or his origin. Why is it, do you think, that though this tale is so fragmentary that it is all but a different story, that humans are still able to coax power from its words? Why such a distorted interpretation, false or missing in so many respects, still allows one to wield fragments of sunlight?"
Staren	Staren takes it in, and listens. "Because the power is caused by their faith, not by the beings they worship. It doesn't matter if the story they believe in is accurate or even true, as long as they believe in it enough." So far, everything supports his theory!
Guest Psyber	"In a world such as Lordran, the belief of the strongest holds power. Whether that individual is known or unknown, if an individual possesses enough power, they can shape the reality of this world." Psyber theorizes as he considers it, taking a bite of his sandwich, "And because of that, the truth of the matter or how hidden the information is would be irrelevant so long as the core being existed."
Reiji Arisu	"I suppose it would be too idealistic to suggest that it's because the fundamental story is so strong that its meaning persists in defiance of the distortion it has suffered over the ages," Reiji murmurs. "Perhaps it's the faith of the wielder, but as far as I am aware, the power of the miracle demands greater faith, how distorted that miracle is has little bearing. Hm." "You specified humans," Reiji says, then. "Does it have to do with the dark soul of man, or is this something else?"
Kushiko	Kushiko stays silent throughout what is said by Ciaran, and whatever thoughts she may or may not have had seem to shift a bit. Psyber may 'feel' like something's staring pretty hard at him from the faceless Warframe. The words seem to have struck a chord perhaps. <"Nor how much it may be twisted or maybe doesn't even exist in the first place."> No, this conversation and the thought behind it have taken a path she doesn't particularly like the implications of relative to her.
Tomoe	Tomoe gets the concept of faith it's just overwhelming to her that people have that mush in her or the others. She listens to their host paying careful attention. She is trying to get an understanding of the detaisl here. "I think i get it in a world like this faith holds sway over reality?"
Xiaomu	A secret library? Xiaomu wasn't really expecting that, but she's paying even more attention now. Granted, she'd probably have some trouble reading most of them, and she doubts this is the place for illustrated legends of whatever inappropriate mythology Lordran's deities may have engaged in ... there's a more immediate question, if nothing else, and Xiaomu just listens and watches. And then there's a question. A really good question, really - one that most mortals would have trouble with, and possibly some immortals as well. And that said, Xiaomu takes her time about answering, actually looking more thoughtful than even Reiji is likely to have seen her in ... well, at least since he was a child. "To tell a story, any story, is to grasp events - real or unreal - and make them tangible, something that people can share among themselves. When those events truly happened, the seed of their reality is embedded in the story, elevating it to myth and to legend. And when those events happened at a level surpassing the physical, greater than what most people can embrace as 'real' ... then the story resonates with the power of that myth, that greater reality, becoming a candle that never burns out, a lamp that never runs out of fuel - a beacon, even a small one, as eternal as the stars. The greatest stories are those with the most power to move an audience, even long after the first person to write that story down has died and returned to dust." .... plus, Xiaomu is still an otaku.
Priscilla	Ciaran snaps the book closed, tattered page and all, which must have certainly been gained by a formerly Undead pilgrim somewhere in Anor Londo. One who had learned it by heart, no doubt. "In a sense, it does, but not in the manner I am sure you are thinking." Ciaran says to Reiji. "And no matter how great one's faith, one cannot give life to a mere fantasy, else those completely mad would wield power beyond reckoning." she remarks slightly more cynically towards Kushiko. "But you are close. I would have expected from the lot of you, of course, for all you have seen; far more than many older creatures. Most do not realize it, but many, if not most, of the beings they worship in their words and tales and rituals no longer walk this world. Some have passed away long ago, others given up their godhood, or some, despite what the tales would say, were never gods at all." "Those of blood relation to the Great Lord of Sunlight, or otherwise bequeathed his power, do indeed inherit the power of creation. To give life to something, however fleeting, where it did not exist, without shaping or tapping energies of the soul or flame. Their powers are indeed miraculous, but they are not, in of themselves, Miracles. The powers they use, and those that humans wield in imitation, are not one and the same." "In a sense, it is as you have guessed. Godhood is not strictly necessary to change the foundations of this world, built vaguely so. As all that you see was borne from the mighty Lordsouls delivered from the Flame, so too can a mighty enough soul, regardless of its origin, subtly alter what is true, and what is permissible, by its greatest expressions. Once the deed is done, and it echoes into history, it no longer matters who accomplished it, who they were, what they were, or even if they still live. It is, as you have said, something that surpasses that which men know to be real. It is a facet of the world that humans alone lay claim to, without ever knowing it." Ciaran balances the book then on the carved Hollow's head, dusting off her hands. "Faith is called the power to believe that which cannot be proven true, but in essence, it is also power to realize the truth. The church has long ago engaged in the practice of abbreviating, altering, or delivering only fragments of great tales, to those of little faith. After all, a lesser feat, that defies one's knowledge less, is easier for any man to believe. Though they command lesser power, the faith that at least that much is possible, is enough." "For reasons so, you will find a thousand separate scriptures of healing wherever you go, and yet all are parts of a single epic . . ." she then taps another, much weightier tome on the shelf, the size of a human torso. "Contained here. The church may have forgotten, but it does not withhold these powers, or this knowledge, to stratify orders of heirarchy. It is through religion that a common human finds faith enough within himself to ever hope to open his eyes to how truly strange and infinite the world of the First Flame is." Finally, she sits down at the edge of the plinth, crossing one leg over the other. "I have spoken enough, for the moment. With all of what I have told you, I am certain you already realize how it is that some have come to worship you. What I ask of you now, is who you believe would object, and why. I have already told you that precious few amongst the gods realize this truth themselves. It would be unusual for them to act with such ferocity out of the desire to protect the secret that imitation of their powers is not theirs to bestow or withhold. Their belief that their strength comes from their followers, and the other way around, is erroneous, but purposefully so; in part, to prevent the very situation you see approaching you."
Xiaomu	Okay, so maybe she was on the wrong track there, thinks Xiaomu. But ... "Wait, did I hear that right? People might worship us because our actions fell into the same category as the myths they had before all of that?" .... maybe WAY on the wrong track now.
Staren	Staren listens. Oh. So his theory was completely wrong, but he learned something! And knowledge is power. "Well. Until just now, I would have blamed the strife on petty traditionalism. And perhaps to some degree of the gods fearing losing worshipers to us... but if even we did not figure out the truth, do the gods really need to fear so much that someone else might? And do WE really have any right to deny these people their full potential, to learn to make use of any miracles they can find? Used carefully, this knowledge could be used to create NEW miracles, for whatever society needs!"
Reiji Arisu	Ah. So that's it. Once a legend is made, it cannot easily be unmade. Reiji tilts his head back slightly, at that. "I see. Even when the Firstborn was cast from his position and stricken from the records of the world-- and even when his divinity was cast down-- it did not stop the faithful from drawing on the fragments of his legend. Likewise, even when the years pass and the ages come and go, the deeds we accomplished will remain. The stories that they tell of us now are distorted, but the power they wield is real." "But therein lies the problem, no?" Reiji rubs at his chin, his brow furrowing in the flickering light of his burning blade. "Where the gods believe their power comes from their followers, and likewise the opposite, a relationship is born between man and god. One requires the other. Harmony is achieved. Comparatively, when there are those who stand as examples to the contrary--" He gestures, "When there are heroes here who do not necessarily receive worship like the gods do, and when we do not grant boons and give the illusion of divinity, the veil is endangered. So then the ones interested in protecting it are the ones most likely to act directly against us." "So. The church, then?" Reiji cants his head, "Or one of the gods who DOES know the truth, but from what you're saying, I doubt that. You said the church forgot, but you also said that it is by their own work that miracles are broken down and distributed to the layman. So I would wager that there must be someone who recognizes the truth among them?"
Kushiko	<"That much is a relief at least."> Kushiko... knew some things about lies and fantasies and what have you. Instinctively, she knew, but could not fully give more than her muddled mind could give regarding such notions. Ah, the life of a child who was turned into a weapon and god knows what else. Nonetheless, there's a great, weighty concern here to put mildly. Especially when it comes to the question of who would object and why. <"The world's like... one of those tapestry things. And it can't just be burned down either. Wasn't there a lot of people who didn't like Multiversal interference?"> It's speculation on her part, because while she heard /of/ it she wasn't as intimately involved as others, her voice somewhat searching in terms of others to help fill in the blanks; after all, just because they dealt with that one Covenant doesn't mean they simply gave up, now did they?
Tomoe	Tomoe turns bright red at the bit about never having been a god at all, it's hard to hide it with the nature of her avatar. She's looking very red and it takes a moment for the effect to end up fading after a bit. "I think I understand a bit about this." Oh this was so over her pay-grade. The Iron Lily has a lot to think about after today and who knows. She is trying to grasp it but from a world where it's God or Gods rarely if ever actually speak should they exist? This has her out of her element and it chow but she's also attempting to understand the full gravity of this. "So this isn't just going to end with that incident is it? The quesiton is what do we do about it?"
Xiaomu	"Gods don't usually depend THAT directly on mortals just to exist, but ..." Xiaomu trails off a bit, looking at Reiji in particular. ".... yeah. A god who isn't worshipped by mortals is so tenuous - it's like that Westerner said, the one who went 'I think, therefore I am'. But in gods' cases, it's more 'My worshippers think of me, therefore I Am.' And if we aren't bestowing blessings or whatever and worshippers stop believing in us, they might stop worshipping the actual deities of Lordran's native pantheon." Religion is a mortal construct, but it's something that immortals can find refreshing to engage in - witness, for instance, the fox spirit who is one of the worst Buddhists ever. Or maybe Xiaomu is a bad example on that front. "Well, if Lordran's people need a goddess of stories and occasional heroic mischief, I'm not sure what I can bless them with beyond 'daring to do good deeds and telling awesome stories'. There's worse things to be known for. .... Or I could teach them how to make fried tofu. They have soybeans here, right?" Reiji is probably getting ready to smack her right about now.
Reiji Arisu	No, the spanking will come later. It always does. Reiji's hand is strong.
Priscilla	"They may, in due time." Ciaran admits to Xiaomu, without any particular charge to her voice. "And they would be neither misguided in doing so, nor unrewarded for it." Finally though, she tilts her head at Reiji in something that seems bizarrely appreciative. "You are a wise one, cursebreaker. Though the Great Lord Gwyn, may his soul find rest, rightfully feared the Dark within men, he was nothing if not magnanimous towards humankind. With this knowledge from the start, it was his will that his children would coexist with man; that they be granted as much a place as any under his sun, such that they should have no reason to seek any other place, and so that the divine would have a vested interest in keeping them to the right path, for all other roads for man lead to the Abyss. Thereupon is built all distinctions of what is holy and blasphemous, what is good and evil, and what is divine and mortal." "I am certain you have been deceived and lied to a great many times, wandering through these lands, but this blurring of the history of men and gods alike is by far the greatest, and the most necessary. If humans are encouraged to forsake their gods, or gods encouraged to forsake humankind, then they are fundamentally at war." Ciaran can then only spread her hands. "I am no longer leading you to an answer. My question was genuine. It is my duty, as the last remaining Lordsblade, to see all threats to the reign of Anor Londo cast down. It is for this reason that I share these secrets with you. I am hoping that something you have seen, somewhere, would give lead to from where this intentional antagonism springs forth." "We are, for now, within a period of safety, where the lie is still believable that your worship is a misguided perversion of due worship paid to Archlord Priscilla. That verses that praise you are parasitic to her half-divinity. Should this continue, and that belief disappear, the only choice left is for all those who live on this world to reconsider all of their fundamental beliefs regarding the basic rules of their world, or believe that the Archlord herself is an impostor, and you are blasphemers simply in on her con." "I ask you, instead, what you will do about it."
Guest Psyber	"What if..." Psyber thinks about it and scratches at the underside of his chin a couple times, "The lie was never a lie? What if we could provide proof that we helped to stoke the first flame that the gods fed from?" Psyber thinks back to that moment in time, that secretive instant. "That we did not claim the power of the Gods, but rather that we pushed them up to their heights. Demi-gods of the world that fed the power of the true gods?" Psyber looks to Ciaran, "Then, the worship is no longer a threat to Priscilla, but the lie continues and the world is left stable. As Demi-gods, our power is to feed the God's right to rule. We came back from the shadows on the brink of ruin to bring a God back to the throne." "We appeared, as we did at the beginning of it all, to empower the Gods to rule this land and to help it ourselves without ruling it." "It is true. It fits this world's framework of worship. And it does not threaten stability."
Staren	Staren folds his arms. He can't believe what he's hearing... No, he /can/ believe it. It's just disappointing. "I can't believe that after everything we've done, you think the answer is to lie to people." He holds up a hand. "I know I don't have the power to fight all of you, so I won't go against you or try to start a war or anything, sheesh. But I can't help with this. As for my followers... If they believe your lies, they're free to stay here, and if not, there's a whole multiverse out there where they are free to seek truth and advance themselves instead of... instead of being held down by a bunch of scared... whatever!" He steps back.
Staren	"Cowards!" he adds after a few seconds to think of a word.
Kushiko	Somewhere, far and away from here in the cradle of the mad cephalon, the Tenno just kind of blinks and stares at Psyber through her Warframe. Not that it /shows/ on Valkyr, but it's the kind of response that could be imagined at the very least. <"... well then the matter would probably be finding that actual proof and making sure it stands up to scrutiny of those who already might be against it."> It's a good plan, it really is. <"Maybe we can conduct a search and investigation further into this. We won't use Valkyr, but another one of our Warframes and work with some others."> As to what Staren says, she simply shrugs. <"Sometimes, a lie is easier to swallow than the truth. You'd be surprised. Some of us know such a thing personally.">
Reiji Arisu	"Ah, no it's nothing like that," Reiji chuckles at the faint-- but genuine-- praise. "Pursuing harmony between man and god is my job description. Perhaps wisdom is a consequence of that, but it might also just be a perk of the business. But as for what can be done--" He glances to Psyber and inclines his head. "That may be well. To be known not as gods but as heroes, like the ones of yore of whom stories are still told. Havel, for example. We came from the mists, did as we had to do, and so returned. But as I understand it, that may not be entirely sufficient." "In my case at least, there is something that can be done." He taps a hand on the blade of his station, resting peacefully amongst his other weapons. "The legend that is told of me is only of me in part. The blade that they summon with their miracles is inspired by the sword of the First Amongst The Dead. I believe we may be able to use that, if we can spread word that it is not Priscilla whose power I served conduit to, but Nito. To split away extraneous and conflicting legends towards more believable forms-- isn't that what you said is already done?" "The true legends, in some cases," he says, canting his head slightly, "Can be obscured just enough to be believable to the masses. And those who know the truth can yet call upon the full might of our deeds. I believe that a combination of Psyber's and my strategems could help... Reduce the risk. I personally don't object to it; I'm a priest- I worship, I'm not the type to BE worshipped." "The alternative is to become as gods in Lordran ourselves."
Guest Psyber	Psyber looks to Staren, "Did you listen to a single word I said?" The half-angel asks him bluntly, "Or did you just hear what you wanted to hear and come to a conclusion like you always do so you can rail against organized religion?" Psyber crosses his arms in return to Staren doing it, "I suggested we give them the actual truth. That we're not gods of this world, but that we supported the original gods. That we came back on the brink of darkness. That we support the current Gods. We are, in essence, Demi-Gods that support this world and protect it." "No part of that has been incorrect. No part of that is a lie."
Reiji Arisu	"Likewise," Reiji says to Staren with regards to Psyber's newest point, "My blade- the subject of their miracles- WAS given to me by Nito." He shrugs, then. "If that's the aspect of my deeds they emphasize, then it's important that we tell them. It's not my power; my skill and my strength wielded that blade, but the weapon itself was a gift. The legend is not only my own, and that is the truth."
Xiaomu	"None of us would have come to Lordran without Priscilla's request and assistance in doing so," Xiaomu says. "She empowered us to help save this world, and we aided her in response to her call. And like Reiji says, he got his sword from one of the local deities. So if the problem is that people ... excuse me a sec." Armor or not, Xiaomu brings her right arm up and elbows Staren as hard as she can in what ought to be his ribs. It'll probably hurt her worse than it hurts him, but she had to at least make the gesture. "If the problem is that Priscilla is losing worship because of us, then they really should be praying to and praising her more for bringing us in."
Staren	"I'm not surprised at all." Staren replies to Kushiko. "The people of the multiverse have a much easier time believing their suffering serves a purpose, serves some fate, couldn't be avoided by better technology. It's that easiness of lies that dooms countless people to suffering and death every day. Because it was easier than facing the truth that we can do better and they could build a better future." He glares at Psyber. "My /problem/ with organized religion is when it's built on lies. The gods aren't granting people power for their worship, and their petty fighting has caused only problems for Priscilla and her people. And SHE" he points at Ciaran "just told us that the people of Lordran, gods and humans alike, have the potential to advance so much more by understanding how the legends really work! You're proposing going along with the gods' scheme to deny them that, to hold them back. How can you expect me to be okay with that?" At some point Xiaomu elbows him, but he's wearing armor. He steps back a bit from the kinetic energy transferred, all the same.
Tomoe	Ever see a dear in headlights? That's Tomoe right now as she starts to understand the results of her aiding this world upon herself, it's culture and it's faith. It's a heavy burden for someone like herself and she's not sure what to think of this legacy she has left she knows she needs to not rush in and she has a oath she's given go Priscilla which she will attempt to upheld. She's quiet now for once she gets the idea rushing in isn't good she looks to Pysber listening for a moment. She listens to Pysber she trusts the leader of Heaven or Hell a lot. She knows how much Kirito also trusts him too. "It could work Pysber, I think you know this sort of thing better than I do." She then sees STaren explode for a moment. She takes a deep breath. "During the death game some believe the lie that the world we came from was not real, others believe that it was still just a game and they were killing no one. Reiji speaks up some more and she thinks. "I have no desire to become a full on God, I am ... not fit for such a thing. We have a responsibility to do something about this we helped this world in the past and we are bound to deal with the results of our actions afterwards, right? Pysber, Reiji? I think i see where your going and I'm willing to support this idea." She just says nothing to Staren and gives a look over to Xiaomu. "That's right she called us all in the first place, if not for her? I'd have never known about this world or the trouble that was plaguing it." She looks to starem no words are given but her look is icy.
Kushiko	<"Enough."> Kushiko curtly remarks. <"Given there was a remarkable fear about what people would do if given a chance here in Lordran as outsiders, trying to change the fabric of this place for the sake of what you think they should. You want to talk about better technology, I could spin you a story about what the wonders of modern technology serve."> Her words are icy. <"I don't... want to hear anymore about it. We're going to do what's best for Lordran here, not what you yourself think is best for it."> A pause. <"Not the time or place for personal beliefs. We inadvertently made a problem. We fix it. The end.">
Reiji Arisu	"It is not the Gods' scheme, Staren. We here are among the very few in this world who know ANYTHING of this." He shakes his head. "This is something that Lord Gwyn established in antiquity. Perhaps it is a lie that the gods grant their powers to each of their worshippers. It is likewise, perhaps, a lie that the prayers of the people empower the gods. But let me ask you this, Staren." "What is living in harmony?" He cants his head slightly. "Havel the Rock was not simply one of Gwyn's warriors. The legends say that he was one of his friends. The gods and the people fight alongside one another, struggle together, triumph and fail together. Even if the concept of direct interchange of prayer and power is false, does that mean the relationship between god and man is false also? Neither party is aware of the truth. But even so, they help one another, cooperate and comisserate. And sometimes, when the need arises, gods DO invest their power in humanity." "Even if it is built on a lie," Reiji clenches his fist. "Everything is. Everything in life is a lie- an illusion. Form. Flow. The pattern of creation. There is nothing fundamental about these things. We believe, and so they are. Do you not see? These things are not the means by which we are held back. The sun rises, and so do we. That is not the truth; the earth revolves around the sun, and while it turns, day and night cycle. The sun does not 'rise' in truth. The sun is just a mass of burning plasma, not a 'sun.' You are not Staren Wiremu, just a bundle of atoms that calls itself Staren Wiremu." "Embrace falsehood, Staren, because that is everything that we are. Contemplate this. And if you do not, then at least do not disrupt the happiness of those who walk in harmony with one another, for regardless of your intentions, that is not something that I can call righteous. That, at least, is Truth."
Staren	Staren's ready to turn away, when Reiji speaks up. He listens, looking between the others warily. "I'm /all for/ the gods and the humans working together! And if the gods didn't know the truth either... well, /both/ can benefit from this! Recovering old legends and making new ones can empower everyone, with purpose-designed miracles! I mean... We could come up with great things to do that would give gods and humans alike new powers to advance society and quality of life!" "...I guess the problem there is, if they knew they didn't depend on eachother, they might turn on eachother and ruin it. But doesn't every society face that dilemma? How has it been solved before? Surely we don't need a lie, especially one that holds everyone back." Staren glances at Reiji. "The atoms thing is a whole other ethical debate."
Priscilla	Ciaran leans her chin against her knuckles, or rather, leans her mask against her slender gauntlet, towards Psyber. "So you would revise your legend, such that you were adherents to the gods, rather than beckoned by the call of one? That you were empowered by true divinity to restore it to its rightful place in the cosmos? You are willing, then, to sublimate much of your place in history to being assorted champions of the First Flame, and subordinates to our Archlord?" She seems genuinely curious. Sounds it, at least. She waits for a direct answer, until Tomoe seems to sincerely give it on their behalf. "I am interested to see that. Whatever proof you have in mind, understand that it cannot be so primally esoteric that one would fail to recognize it." She inclines her head towards Reiji. "That much should be simple. In fact, it may be well worth examining what other deities the whole of you could claim some attribution to. Which powers you have worked on the behalf of. However, there is still the third of three issues, and that is we still yet have no leads towards who will inevitably work against you, as they are now. A search and investigation is wise, however . . ." she prompts Kushiko. Then the explosion of debate happens. In truth, someone as old as Ciaran would be foolish to imagine all of this would go over smoothly; that everyone would be of like mind about something so fundamentally controversial. Still, even as tempers flare and words heat up, she show no signs of tension. Then again, it's the hallmark of an expert assassin to never betray one's killing intent. "If you are at least of like mind, and like understanding, that this information cannot be freely shared, I will interfere no further for now. Prepare what you will wish to say. Secure any believable allegiances you can. Check your stories. Help me then find this provocateur, so that I may have his head. If we are silent and swift, we will quell this heresy without incident." The Lordsblade starts to get up, and yet hesitates for just a moment at Xiaomu. "But, I do beg of you, be sure that your words are well placed. Without your parts in the tale of the Flame's salvation, I fear it would be a very dark one. Without a champion of Fire or two, this story becomes little more than a chronicle of slaughter and tears, stemming from a single, ancient betrayal. Taking those words to heart peers more deeply into the Dark than anyone should. I am not certain why, after taking the Lordsouls for herself, the queen lays claim to no true Miracles of her own, but something deep within me believes that is best."
Kushiko	Valkyr inclines her head slightly, Kushiko speaking, <"Agreed. We shall conduct our investigation and coordinate where we can. The Lotus may contact some of you,"> her 'gaze' shifting to the others, Psyber, Reiji, Xiaomu and Staren as well as Tomoe. <"For information as we conduct our search. Our intent is to be discrete as much as we are able. The matter of what to say is not something we alone will consider, but given that there's likely someone already working against this, our focus will be there.">
Reiji Arisu	Reiji nods, then, to Staren. "Good. We are in accord. I'm glad you understand, Staren. Now--" He looks to the others, "It seems we've all got work to do. I'll look through the old legends, see what we can do to find figures from history to tie some of the more extraordinary acts to. But perhaps the original legend yet aught to be recorded somewhere?" He glances to Ciaran, "I'm not sure. Lordsblade, do you have any input with regards to the security risk that may or may not impose?" Regardless of all else, Reiji makes his way to his partner, and gently pats... Her head. He smiles, she did good. Also that elbow strike was probably pretty painful. "We should get that checked out," he advises.
Xiaomu	"And I'll go research good recipes for fried tofu," Xiaomu offers. "Lordran should at least learn it, just on general principles. Whether I remain a figure of myth or not, no world deserves to exist without fried tofu." One ache will be doctored ... and another set administered, at this rate.
Tomoe	She has accepted she's in over her head here but if she runs away? Well that's a worse idea than facing it. She has made up her mind she's with Pysber's plan she looks to Ciaran.She thinks about it maybe they were giving up a lot nad there was a lot to think about here as the debate plays out. The final word of the Lordsblade does strike home to her. There's a lot to thinkabout they have a lot to think over and she looks to Valkyr. "Your better t stealth than I am I trust that you can dow hat you need to do, right?" She so need to think down and thing. "So long as the world keeps turning right? I think that's enough for me..." A part of her does cring at being possibly forgotton but maybe it's for the best? She was born to be a face in the crowd and maybe at least with the annals of history? That's how she shouldbe.
Staren	"Well, /we'll/ know what really happened..." Staren points out. "So wait... are we disguising our legend, or just claiming to be demigods?"