Scene #8389: Frozen People

Owner	Pose
Angela	SEOUL. THE SECRET WORLD Seoul, the 16th largest city in the world.... And home to many a computer cafe. In one such net cafe called PC BANG! (exclamation point included), B is waiting to have what he hopes will be the kind of conversation that gets him the kind of help he's looking for. Or, failing that, will at least give some warning to the rest of the multiverse about the nature of the City. B, or Benjamin as Angela revealed, has offered to meet with Lilian personally since he'd just be some rando if he doesn't actually make this kind of show of good faith. He has picked out the location right down to the terminal he's sitting at along with a time so it wouldn't be tough to find him. He has his share of worries, but this wouldn't be the first time he's acting out on faith after all. Benjamin is a young man with gray hair, green eyes, and glasses wearing a rather dark gray meager suit with red tie along with darker gray slacks. He is pretty nondescript, all told, almost absurdly so. In a multiverse full of fantastic people with incredible stories, Benjamin looks more like a man who spends most of his time in an office than someone who might help build a robot. The gray hair makes him look like he is a bit older than he actually is. The Net Cafe has privacy dividers between visitors but there's still exterior windows advertising the place. The truth is, Benjamin probably didn't need to signify where he'd be sitting because he's the only person in the Cafe at the moment--though he didn't know that would be the case. He isn't using computer but is instead reading a book that the cover suggests might be about quantum physics--just to occupy the time.
Lilian Rook	As far as Elites go, Lilian is in the upper five percent of being able to go about their business normally off the clock, and in the ninety ninth percentile for having a richly detailed life outside of work. When it comes to standing out, her greatest offense is refusing to dress down to street level, visibly overfunded and overtuned for a street outing to an internet café, and a distant second is the slim scar on her otherwise too-pretty face that only those especially in-the-know would recgonize as being drawn by weaponry. It's hardly dramatic when she slides into 'PC BANG!' from the sidewalk, dressed in a charcoal black fitted blazer and skirt that'd almost fit into an office if there weren't a splash of vivid red undershirt still visible, necklace chain over. She speaks Japanese, not Korean, so for once she decides to use her native language instead of English to fly by without any attitude. Arriving at B's chosen booth, Lilian's bag-- on close inspection, that's a messenger bag, not a purse-- thumps jarringly on the table where she intentionally puts it down a little too hard, before she goes about looking to see if there's evil a spare seat in one of those things. She radiates a subtle kind of unease with the unfamiliar surroundings. "I take it you must be 'B'." says Lilian, still scanning the booth. "Or rather, it seems obvious enough. You know, after all of that ominous talk, and asking for the time of the most important person you'll ever meet in this Sector, you're surprisingly cheap. Don't you run an energy company?"
Angela	Benjamin isn't the sort of person to look chastened at being accused of being too ominous though he does say, "I imagine that to such a big multiverse, speaking about one particular city--even if it is 'The City'--might seem a bit hyperfocused. Nevertheless, I thank you for coming in spite of that." He takes his first look at Lilian. Despite Lilian not dressing down for the locale, Benjamin is not surprised about that. Some Association members wear some pretty posh looking outfits. Benjamin takes note of the bag--the unease is tougher for him to pick out as he stands up to offer her a hand--as if for a handsake. "I am. Though Benjamin is fine, if you prefer." ''The most important person you'll ever meeti n this Sector''. His eyes widen faintly. "Ah--ahah... Well, I knew you were important but I suppose I overstepped." "Unfortunately, I no longer work for Lobotomy Corporation. And I never 'ran' it, persay, I was just... helping my friend. I'm unsure if you've heard of him--his name is Ayin but he's presently predisposed and beyond my reach. I had to leave the company, unfortunately--changes there led to differences that were difficult to reconcile with, even with him. Not impossible, but..." He trails off there before adding, "I wanted to speak to you about L Corp and how it came to be--and its true goal. I don't know if we can see eye to eye, but I wouldn't want Angela to take advantage of those ignorant with the City and L Corp for her own purposes. We are a new world, and someone who happens to be the most important person I'll ever meet in this sector is an efficient way of sharing what I feel is important to know for those who would step into L Corp's affairs for one way or another." "My own time, though not important, is limited. Which is why I am in a place like this." He smiles, allowing any implications in that statement be felt out.
Lilian Rook	'I imagine that to such a big multiverse, speaking about one particular city--even if it is 'The City'--might seem a bit hyperfocused. Nevertheless, I thank you for coming in spite of that.' "Think nothing of it. There are countless quadrillions of people in Sector Zero alone, but I can count the number I really care about on both hands." says Lilian. "And I do prefer, though I further prefer to rely on surnames where possible, as a matter of professionalism." 'Ah--ahah... Well, I knew you were important but I suppose I overstepped.' Lilian allows herself the ghost of a smile. Even just the subtle twitch of her lips is enough to convey that she is the type who enjoys it when she can make her company squirm a little. "I'll overlook it this one time." she says. "You'll soon come to understand why I'm the only friend on the outside that you'll ever really need." The following 'and the only enemy you'll never want to make' feels astonishingly implicit, from someone who'd never be caught dead saying something so tacky and macho. "Especially as a former employee, it seems. Odd as it may be that you'd still go by a codename." 'I wouldn't want Angela to take advantage of those ignorant with the City and L Corp for her own purposes.' Lilian pulls up her seat, and drops into it with such effortless precision that it seems almost like a canned animation, smoothly folding one leg over the other and resting her elbow in her palm. Locking eyes with Benjamin, the look in her eyes feels as if she is thinking about four other things at the same time as she considers his words, without particularly splitting her attention between them. "I see. I certainly do hope that you don't have anything against women who take advantage of whatever and whomever they can, though. I find that it's rather effective to be one." 'My own time, though not important, is limited. Which is why I am in a place like this.' "And mine, conversely, is nearly unlimited, yet also beyond priceless. Let's hear it then. What does Angela want that you so strenuously object to? If you feel the need to interfere with her, why not do it from within the company? What could she possibly hope to achieve by using an energy sector corporation in the first place? And why precisely did you choose the words 'true goal'?"
Angela	"Commander Rook, then." Benjamin says. He isn't the type of person to start needless hostility over small concessions either even if he wouldn't say he's particularly diplomatic himself. It sounds like a strange turn of phrase, though, the way she speaks of the number of people she really cares about--from what he understands of the Paladins' ethos--but he suppose it simply suggests that the organization--or at least Lilian herself--isn't so into the hype of the mission statement to say they really care deeply about every single person they can reach. It is a kind of honesty that puts Benjamin more at ease (even if he doesn't know if it's actually honest, it feels honest and that's good enough for him). "The Codename--and much of the discretion--wasn't really for L Corp, you, or even Angela." Benjamin admits. "But even if I am not part of the company anymore, I still believe in their goals. Even if the multiverse has little reason to care for what happens to it, the Head of our City would have very strong opinions and while the Head doesn't care about the rest of the multiverse, there is always the possibility that someone is listening in will share details with them if they were to realize how it could ruin us." He frowns at Lilian's--well it isn't an accusation yet, exactly, but it is an opportunity to assure her he isn't that distasteful... "I have to assure you it is not a matter of Angela being a woman, or an AI. My reason for being reluctant in aiding in her creation has little to do with her. And my concerns have nothing to do with her identity." Whether this is true or not, he is speaking with enough conviction that it might give off the impression that HE at least believes it. Of course, that doesn't always mean it's true. Lying to yourself is the best first step to lying to others after all. But what ARE his objections? Benjamin sits himself back down, swiveling in the chair to face Lilian, his back to the window. "Our organization, though he might be the mind behind 'Lobotomy Corporation', he was never the heart of it. That honor belonged to someone we both cared for very deeply, but he more than anyone. Her name was Carmen." "Carmen believed that the people of the City we come from had become 'Frozen' in a sense, not truly living as humans due to the level of oppression and cruelty felt daily in the City." "To summarize briefly, we formed the company with the express goal of changing the City into a kinder place. I don't know how many of L Corp's employees you've met... but I'm curious as to what you've deduced from them about the place we come from." "Nevetheless, tragedies happened--and Carmen ended her own life. Ayin chosed to use Carmen's mental network and appearance as a baseline for Angela but naturally like any other child, she was her own person--not Carmen--and Ayin could not handle it." "Understandably, Angela carries a great deal of resentment over that--and the circumstances of her being unable to leave L Corp." Benjamin hesitates for a moment. "I say all this to give a bit of background but so to answer the question..." "I believe Angela wishes to sabotage Carmen's goal. Perhaps... I should have stayed within the company, but..." He frowns as if he might have considered it a misstep in hindsight and, as such, not having the best answer to give here but he does eventually admit, "I did not approve of the organization's harsher and harsher methodology. It was starting to resemble any other Wing of the City. Perhaps I simply could not handle that truth." What could she possibly hope to achieve by using an energy sector corporation in the first place? "The energy we're harvesting isn't meant for her, or me, or Ayin. It is meant for the people of the City." Benjamin says, trying to put this in the simplest terms because getting into the matter of EGO extraction was really more Carmen and Ayin's cup of tea than his. "We are harvesting excess amounts of a certain kind of energy for the purpose of inciting change within the people of the City. I worry she in
Angela	I worry she intends to prevent it from reaching the intended people."
Lilian Rook	"Well. You look satisfied with something." Lilian says to Benjamin, and does not elaborate. All he'd said was her rank and surname. "My apologies. Continue." The way she says it sounds like she's giving him a pass, rather than asking for forgiveness; not even insincerely. 'the Head of our City would have very strong opinions and while the Head doesn't care about the rest of the multiverse, there is always the possibility that someone is listening in will share details with them' "Ah, I see. To tell you the truth, that's not an unfamiliar situation. Internally focused, project-obsessed authoritt figures-- often egomaniacs-- eschewing the Multiverse as a concern, whilst those with far less power than them turn to it as their only option, aren't so uncommon you'll never meet one." Lilian notices herself loosely twisting her wrist in thought, as if she'd have a bottle to sqirl, and stops. "So, you either have a great deal of faith in my sympathetic nature, or, more realistically, a great deal of confidence that I have nothing to gain and will feel no ethical compulsion to report you." Her fingers touch her cheek instead. "I sort of like that." 'I don't know how many of L Corp's employees you've met... but I'm curious as to what you've deduced from them about the place we come from.' "Violent and dangerous; practically lawless except in the sense that there are laws of who not to cross and what they're allowed to demand of you. The people are practically mad, or possibly just idiots, who take everything they shouldn't in stride and live by matter-of-factly seeking, cultivating, or hiding in the shadow of, personal strength. I assume primarily wealth and force of arms." says Lilian. "That's what an energy company that hires burnt out handymen and eccentric lunatics, and arms them like that, tells me, at least. Am I close to the mark?" 'Nevetheless, tragedies happened--and Carmen ended her own life.' One of Lilian's eyebrows disappears into her bangs. "Beg pardon? Carmen? This is the first I'm hearing of her." 'but naturally like any other child, she was her own person--not Carmen--and Ayin could not handle it.' There is the distinctly unpleasant feeling that Lilian is no longer looking at 'Benjamin'. Her eyes are on his face, her posture unmovingly attentive, her expression professionally neutral, but he feels something like a complete opposite of the universally familiar experience of being alone in an empty place and feeling eyes on you regardless; the sense of occupying a room with someone else right in front of you, and not feeling their presence at all. "Understandably." Lilian repeats after him. "Not even a machine can come out of that experience unscathed, hm? That's good to know. What a wonderful point of reference." 'I worry she intends to prevent it from reaching the intended people.' Subtly, Lilian's eyes return to Benjamin. It's easy enough to imagine nothing happened. "That's certainly simple enough for me to understand, but not clear enough for me to judge. There are only so many ways 'energy' can be used to help people. To empower them? Provide them with some sort of protection? Free them from some need? Cure them of some affliction?" She, in fact, focuses in on locking gazes, her voice carrying an edge of sharp sincerity it didn't before. "Please work with me, Benjamin. I can't be certain that our value judgements will align unless you tell me what you think is a good thing. I can't believe Angela is impure until you show me an example of your 'pure' first."
Angela	Benjamin's expression darkens when Lilian says that it isn't an unfamiliar situation for Lilian. He isn't grateful that there could be solace in a kind of shared suffering--he doesn't think those worlds should suffer under such a yoke, nor does he think his own should. Carmen 'died' before their world was connected and he has to wonder to some extent just how she'd think of it. He wasn't drawn to the company by Carmen like the others but...Would that have changed her fate? "I hate to say it, but--it is closer to the latter. You reporting us would not help you at all. Even a citizen of the City would have nothing to gain by reporting it--though, admittedly, they might feel that compulsion out of fear." Naturally, not something he expects Lilian to have...nor does he think she'd have any reason to. If the Head's only concern is within the City then anything outside of it would not be one. "The Head has not tried to shut down the warpgates--I do not know if it is even possible, but the lack of trying indicates that it has not been designated an Impurity in the way that AI like Angela has been." Angela doesn't seem to mind taking the risk by indicating her nature as such on the open band. Benjamin attributes that as a sign of her recklessness. "Most Agents--or Fixers as they're known outside of the Wing--seek money. We're not the only ones who employ such people--their use is common throughout the whole of the City. Backstreets, Nests, and Wings included though naturally those with more resources can hire more talented Fixers." "I imagine L Corp's current employees do not speak often of her. The way she died was rather traumatic for those of us who worked there--particularly the management." He hesitates and then nods slowly, "I am not like The Head who would consider her an Impurity simply for the nature of her construction." Despite considering her goals as decidedly impure. "I do not honestly believe Ayin is that type of man either or he wouldn't have violated the taboo in the first place but I imagine those shattered by heartbreak aren't uncommon out here either." Lilian starts pressing on a sensitive matter. The matter of L Corp's singularity. Work with her. Work with her. There's hesitation there--not because Benjamin has anything to lose, but because of this project he still believes in. He naturally wants to protect it. But what Lilian is asking for is a show of faith. While he has given Lilian a method to potentially bury L Corp (metaphorically, it is already buried literally)... "You have seen the EGO weapons, I presume that the Agents of L Corp use. Those are not typical weapons. They are born from the Abnormalities within L Corp. And Abnormalities...are born from the human psyche." "We wish to give the ability of every citizen in the City the ability to potentially draw out and summon their own EGO." Benjamin says softly, like he's afraid anyone but Lilian might hear it. "And thus--yes--give every citizen the ability to defend themselves--and fight for themselves. These would be planted seeds, they would be drawn out in time--but theoretically it could allow those of the underclass to resist the City's oppression." He says resist, not overthrow, not defeat.
Lilian Rook	'I hate to say it, but--it is closer to the latter.' "You should say it confidently and firmly." Lilian says. "As a general rule, it's always best to be straightforward about why you've invested your confidence in someone. Otherwise they tend to get strange ideas." She begins to smile. "Besides. I've never been afraid of anything in my life." It's a knowing kind of untruth that is told for the amusement of it, but which comes out so easily that it's hard to imagine how it could be anything other than a fact. 'it has not been designated an Impurity in the way that AI like Angela has been.' "I can't help but notice you've used that word again, only, 'designated as'. I'm certain it's something very cultural and legal. But that seems to imply to me where you agree with the government?-- The Head-- in some matters, and where you clearly only accept their authority in others." The fact that her hunch is immediately verified feels good. Lilian only nods thoughtfully when Benjamin speaks for 'Ayin' too, vaguely stating "Your friend. Who seems to have been rather important." 'I imagine those shattered by heartbreak aren't uncommon out here either.' Lilian's smile turns strained. "Not as common as you'd think, unfortunately." She doesn't explain her choice of wording. And yet she feels oddly patient where Benjamin begins to inwardly struggle, auspiciously offering the floor at the first sign of untimely silenece. 'And Abnormalities...are born from the human psyche.' Lilian breathes in softly. Just the gentle rise of her shoulders feels like an entirely different posture. "I'd wondered. How exactly does a random monster produce energy more efficiently than a reactor? What is that technology doing that a fusion design wouldn't? Why are they appearing in your City, so often that they've been industrialized? Why can't they die? What do they have to do with 'EGO'? Those sorts of questions had been nagging me for the past little while." Her gaze drifts sideways, thoughtfully past Benjamin's head. "I'm happy you've been so straightforward. I know someone who'd call that sort of thing a 'psychohazard', so I believe I might grasp the basics." "Funny, isn't it? That most of what you can find in the human psyche just wants to kill people and ruin everything. How appropriate that your company would be dedicated to suppressing the abhorrent runoff of humanity's consciousness. That's most of what human beings do as well. Some more than others." 'theoretically it could allow those of the underclass to resist the City's oppression.' For such a massive show of Benjamin's hand, Lilian appears to take it oddly in stride. It's a little disquieting, that she isn't showing a dramatic reaction to dramatic news, but also a little encouraging, that she seems to be curious rather than repulsed. Her continued probing feels even more genuine than before, even if it is equally sharp in kind. "Theoretically, I'm certain. I'd never fancy a corporation as revolutionaries, that's for certain. That's often a funny sort of word for a coup d'etat and more 'profit-friendly' regime, in the worlds I'm used to." Lilian says, like she'd already considered and discarded the possibility. "I'd like to know more about why you think it is that the underclass needs to rise up, but I suspect I'll find that out for myself. I almost want to believe that Angela, as an 'Impurity', should sympathize more than she hates." The way she breathes out feels like a silent 'but I wouldn't'. "But it could also, theoretically, allow those same people to choose to wield that new power against each other, too. Freshly intoxicated with their violent independence, why do you think they would band together? What gives you the confidence they won't aim for an easier target-- their neighbours, for instance-- and in their preexisting desperation, tear the City apart into an anarchic bloodbath?"
Angela	"I have never met 'The Head', so I can only speculate as to their reasons. for doing things," Benjamin smiles wistfully. "But I imagine I would--if only because it is rare to find someone you disagree on every matter about, isn't it? As for the government itself, I am also a product of that government and society. Even if you think 'the government is cruel...'" He runs his hand through his hair and looks out the window for a moment but--it's still clear. Nobody who swallowed a bee in sight and nobody who seems remotely interested in what's happening in this dingy cafe either Not that he'd know about the former. "Either way, I do not hold resentment over AI in particular--or even Angela as a person outside of not trusting her to have prosocial aims in mind." His eyes light up at the mention of Ayin. "Yes, even if my faith has been shaken--It has not been broken. I believe in him." Despite theoretically going behind his back here? Maybe he's the sort that feels like they still have to look out for those they believe in. Maybe after Carmen, that conceit is stronger than ever. "We did not set out with the idea of using the Abnormalities... Like with any product of discovery, there's steps and misteps along the way--" ''Some more than others''. He has no comment to that. Does he notice a slight change in tenor there with those final four words? If so, he doesn't comment on it. As much as he's gambling with Lilian, he could not say he knows her well. But he doesn't have a lot of time. And even if she is just being arrogant about being the only friend he'd need on the outside--well... He raises his head. "We could, if we wished, simply keep the company running--but the 'corporation' was not always one. Our work was initially conjured from a backstreet preacher--ahh, but what corporation doesn't brag about their 'humble' origins, mm?" A half grin, half grimace flickers upon his lips and face. "I don't believe I have the ability to convince that our goals are as I say they are--Outside of pointing that I will hardly profit from a company's success that I am no longer a part of." But even saying it, he doubts that's very convincing. He did after all admit that his friend was still very much a part of it, after all. There's a lot of ways to profit outside of money. "Nor can I say for certain that this would result in positive change. I would like to think so, but after living in a reality where nothing ever changed... taking a gamble to invoke even a little change, to allow for that possibility... There is no perfect revolution, and the change may not be positive, but there ''will'' be change. However small. And that is enough to change many things. "Either way, those battles are already happening." He admits. "So in a sense, there is a little to lose. But at the very least, EGOs do not simply manifest for everyone. It takes a willingness to face the little distortions in yourself and challenge them honestly. As you might expect from a power that originates from one's mind." He folds his fingers together and admits, "I did not come here believing I could convince you to help us--or I suppose I should say ''him''--in the project but to at least warn you about Angela and, particularly, the City's nature and some of our history. A show of faith, like you asked for." "What you do with this information, that is up to you though I hope for discretion. I imagine Angela will figure out a way to talk to you in person soon even if it's through a screen."
Lilian Rook	'Even if you think 'the government is cruel...'' "They're some of the contents of the vessel that a human being is." Lilian says, as if finishing his sentence. "They define the environment in which humans develop, and so, some amount of them pours in, whether they like it or not. Even an oppressive authority is responsible for shaping hearts and minds and defining acceptability well beyond the bounds of its oppression." 'I believe in him.' Lilian's faint smile becomes wistful. "And here I wondered. You really do like him, don't you? Even after what he's done to Angela." 'but after living in a reality where nothing ever changed... taking a gamble to invoke even a little change, to allow for that possibility...' Out of nowhere, Lilian tilts back her head and laughs. It's short; harsh and abrasive, but not sarcastic, showing just a little too much tooth. "Oh my. Now that's a rare breed of familiar thought. You could say that the perfect is the enemy of the good, but that's not quite it, is it?" She leans forward, elbows in her lap, chin in her hands. Her eyes catch the light in an odd way. "It's that feeling of rotting while you're alive. Seeing everything pass you by, your life slipping through your fingers, every route closed off, every exit sealed. Then, when you finally have the terrifying thought that it'll be this way forever, you have a choice; try not to think about it, keep your head down, and numb yourself for as long as you can, or do something very, very stupid, because you know you can no longer live like that." The moment passes. Lilian straightens herself out again, as if nothing ever happened. "It's good to hear that there are prerequisites. That eases my mind a little, in as much as I care about my conscience. Ultimately though, I won't tell you that you're wrong." She begins speaking in a tone that is both fond and slightly rehearsed, like sharing the lyrics of her favourite song. "Fifth: Thou shalt not deny thy brothers and sisters that which they hath earned. The form of man is without end. Sixth: Power bled for is power earned. Power bargained for is not. Seventh: Only that which is wrought by a man is a man's to give." "Unlocking the potential within other people to choose how they want to live . . . that's a terribly noble goal. I have a close friend like that, you know. Endlessly compassionate and selfless; one who is a far better person than me. I'd never be able to give away for free, what I bled for, but then I don't think I'd ever be able to deny others the opportunity either." Lilian's restless gaze wanders out the window, some time after Benjamin's. "In fact, if L Corp-- if Carmen succeeded, and I were able to see the results of so many people gaining that power by facing those fears, whether they turned towards revolution or merely atrocities, it'd answer a deeply personal question of mine."
Lilian Rook	'I did not come here believing I could convince you to help us--or I suppose I should say ''him''--in the project but to at least warn you about Angela and, particularly, the City's nature and some of our history.' "I think I wouldn't mind helping, here and there." Lilian says, quite abruptly. Despite it being the heaviest question hanging over the entire meeting, it's something she answers with alarmingly casual ease, as if she'd made up her mind some indeterminate time ago. "That is, if I can stand your friend. I'm afraid I have a rather unpleasant history with men like him." She sighs. "Of course I'll speak to Angela, and hear her side; and I'll certainly keep your advice, and your warning, in mind." Lilian picks up her bag again, making ready to leave, but she shares one more charged stare with Benjamin. "But I can already tell; there's something she needs, and you people aren't giving it to her. I know now that we have at least one thing in common, so even if she turns out to be completely beyond redemption, I think it'll be worthwhile if we can speak face to face. If nothing else, I'm confident that I have a way to immediately gain . . . well, perhaps not her trust, but something else. I'll keep that to myself for now." Lilian stands. "Thank you, Benjamin. And good work. You've already found someone who can give something to L Corp, and Angela, that nobody else in the Multiverse can. You may feel free to call me, should circumstances arise."
Angela	Benjamin raises an eyebrow. Of all the things that Lilian has said, that she wouldn't mind helping is the most surprising to him. hut he never had Carmen's gift for people. Few people did. Even Angela, whose mind was networked off of hers, was not exactly Carmen now was she? He can't answer that charged stare or that accusation. He can't speak for Ayin in this instance--he'd so often say a machine must act as a machine afer all--but unfortunately his own conscience doesn't allow him to simply shrug off and say that a machine ought to do as a machine out to do. Even though Angela is essentially a living taboo to where he's from, he unfortunately instantly recognized her personhood. That is how they could be old friends, after all. But no matter who threatened Ayin and his goal happened to be--could never be someone that Benjamin would not oppose vehemently. And that is why they are enemies now. Perhaps some of the City slid into his head when he wasn't looking where it remains until someone finds a way to extract it. "Perhaps that wouldn't be so bad," He says, to give something to Angela. "We are new visitors so I can only say 'pardon for our mess', but the multiverse is the realm of possibility--and it is just as you said, you can hardly blame us for reaching out for that possibility." As so many have before to escape their local tyrants. "I will, thank you for your willingess to listen. And your reason. I'll call you if I learn anything else." But he won't call Lilian. This was the last real conversation Benjamin will have with Lilian. Or anyone, for that matter. Well, anyone that isn't family. He did say he did not have much time. But the Sephirah that Benjamin will come will remember it as a pleasant conversation about an unpleasant topic, strange as that might seem. Or maybe not strange at all.