Scene #5569: From The Star(en)s Above

Owner	Pose
Reaper	The invitation was a simple one; Just a mark on Staren's public calendar, and a location more cordially known as 'Overwatch Earth'. A lot had changed since this strained world had been stitched into the super planet of the multiverse, but it was still a -world-. It took a long time for those not at the edges to work their way out without a gate, and so much of the way of life had been preserved simply by the nature of distance. Outside troubles were literally a world away, if one ignored the gates themselves, both carefully controlled. No, what's surprising about the invitation is who it's from: Reaper. The terrorist, murderer, and - if rumor was true - life sucking wraith who had been haunting the Concord's channels with his growling hate and general pissy attitude. And death obession. Can't forget all the grims this and dying thats. Still, if it's a trap it's a badly set one, for near the gate - waiting to escort Staren into the hidden Talon base that controlled -this- particular gate - was the dark cowled figure himself. Wisps of smoke slowly rising from shoulders and cowls as if he were forever evaporating, but never actually losing mass.
Staren	Staren doesn't think a fellow Concord member would just kill him. Especially after a public request to meet. The labcoat-wearing catboy strides out of the gate and looks around. So this is someone's base... probably that organization that Sombra and Reaper belong to. He waves a hand. "Hi. So um, what's up?"
Reaper	"The body count." States the dark figure; One might think it a joke, but its delivered in a flat, reverberating voice that just practically curdles in the air. It's like he practiced every 'menacing' attribute he could, then threw as much of it together as he could. A beat to let the 'might be a joke or could be perfectly serious' comment sink in, before his cowled head turns and he gestures with a clawed hand. "Had a thought, when I was going back over debriefings. The fight with the aliens against the monkeys on the moon. It's been a while; Do you remember it?" He begins, his bone white mask hidden by the edge of his hood. "I've been checking the dossier we have on our.. allies in the Concord. I realized there's something you have that I need, Staren."
Staren	The body count might really /be/ up, especially around Reaper. Still, most people should be able to tell 'what's up' means 'why have you called me here' in this context. And Reaper /does/ address that after a moment. Staren begins pacing back and forth in front of Reaper, with his hands clasped behind his back. "I remember. And I remember that innocent people were slaughtered so we could get that information. It's true that the moonbase was being under-utilized and could be put to much better use in our hands, but I don't think that excused how we got the info. Still... I suppose there are bound to be a few missteps on the Concord's road to greatness. We still have the potential to help, actually /help/, more people than the Union, and giving up on the Concord over one mistake would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater." Staren blinks, and he turns and looks at Gabe again. "So, what do you need? Weapons? Robots? Cybernetics?"
Reaper	"Perspective." States the Reaper in that same dark voice, as he moves away from the gate. The cowl flaring about his ankles as he intends to lead Staren towards a rather conventional - meeting room. Oval with a high ceiling, and a few holoprojectors along the wall. All standard fair, and likely low-tech compared to what Staren's used too, but there it is. Pausing in front of the holotable to drag his metal claws along its surface, drawing up some presenation or other. The dull waiting 'blue glow' casting curious shadows across his mask as he speaks. Hard to say where he's really looking - which is part and parcel to the point, one supposes. "First, because your dossier lists you as an exemplary example of an objectivist. Second.. you understand the necessity of a mission calling. And third?" Reaper pauses, that bone white mask turned towards Staren. ".. You're an alien, with an alien's perspective on this world. Outside the influences of my usual circle. Clean." The last word practically growled, before Reaper finally straighens up. Talon symbols briefly lighting up the walls and floating above the table as it cues up and readies whatever program Reaper was readying. "What do you know of this world? The Omnics and so forth?"
Staren	Staren may have gathered advanced technology for his spaceship house, but by the standards of RIFTS Earth, large scale use of holographic projectors is pretty upscale! It's true that the effect can be replicated more cheaply by augmented reality, but some worlds just didn't develop that way, including his own. He nods a bit at Reaper's various assessments. Assuming 'objectivist' is meant in the broader philosophical sense and not simply the moral one, anyway. He scratches his head at the question. "Well... not a lot. But from what I looked up and recall... seems kind of a standard robot war scenario, except with a peaceful resolution in some places. Use of ever-more-advanced robotics to help humanity resulted in the development of omnics, machines that were basically people. They naturally rebelled... But in at least some places, like the one we attacked, they were welcomed as humanity's equals and friends."
Reaper	"Close." Begins the Reaper, as the program starts up. Showing a tactical layout of the globe - the timeline marked as of thirty years ago. "The Omnics were not artificial intelligence; They were never meant to be. Thirty years ago, the Omniums - construction hubs for the machines - did wake up. And begin immediate self-improving and replicating. Then attacking. First was Russia-" Red arrow and freckles of dots representing the attacking forces. ".. and then the rest of the world. Several world programs were put in place - Crusaders, from Germany. Svyatogor, in Russia. Mechs in South Korea. Enhanced Soldier protocols, the Americas." "All failed. The world banned together their forces, and could not beat the opponent. The world tried doing it on their own, and could not beat their opponent. Somewhere three years after the first Omnic war machine began marching, true AI appeared en masse. Somewhere along the same lines, Overwatch was formed. It's mission was not to save people, or towns, or countries." "It's mission was to save the human race from extinction." The old Overwatch appears. Gabriel Reyes, listed as Strike Commander, with Jack Morrison and Anna Amari. Others are added to the roster. "Within that same year, the Omnics went from existensial crisis to shattered. There was no peace resolution, Staren; They were put down. That's important to remember for later. And yes, the UN did sign accords with the en-masse, 'hard' AI Omnics left to make the peace official. And turned Overwatch into a UN sponsored peace keeping program." A pause. "This next part is where I need your perspective. It also involves sensitive data; Old. But sensitive."
Staren	Staren nods. So the omnics were created by accident and attacked for no reason. More of a Skynet situation than a Reploids one. "Well... I won't go blab sensitive info for the hell of it, but if you tell me something I'm obliged to act on... Honestly I probably won't get much done without the support of someone from your world most likely. So my hands may be tied anyway." He paces again. "So the omniums hated humanity for no reason. How do the Omnics remaining feel? Are they happy with peace, not driven to exterminate humanity like the omniums were? Or do they basically feel shackled from their full potential, held back from the humanity-exterminating they want to do because if they start, they'll be exterminated?"
Reaper	"Neither. The Omnics left - the hard AI - are as alive as you or I. And as differntiated in their opinion." That's a surprising statement! But the Reaper continues, lifting his clawed hand. "I have fed on them as they died, in my missions; I cannot feed on what does not live. I draw nothing from destroying a vehicle. They are alive." He concludes, before the screens change. Showing shadowy sillouettes - tall ones. "The sensitive data is this; It wasn't an accident." A pause. "Something called 'God Programs' - we don't know where they came from. At least, not that I can divulge. But they can and do seize control of Omnics in a radius, and can expand that control even when heavily damaged. Gabriel Reyes discovered that in the original Overwatch; He deployed his limited strike capabilities to disable them, at the cost of everything else in the world. The gambit worked. The God Programs were shut down, shunted, and torn apart. This was before Overwatch became a .. political stunt." Bone mask back to Staren. "But they are still around. A breech in Egypt proved they were still able to seize Omnics, even evolved to this point." Screen swipe, showing security forces being wiped out by 'civilian' omnics. "And there are still Omnic attacks happening today. So tell me, Staren.." The screen zooms out, to show the whole 'Earth'. It shows the current timeline. A once 'deactivated' Omnium going live in Russia, attacking much the way it did thirty years ago. Huge machines rising from the ocean to attack south korea. "If you had five geographically seperated regions and five different overall behaviors from Omnics, what do you immediatly suspect? Roughly equal citizens in the Americas, but seperate social caste. Subservient in Europe. Attacking en-masse in Russia, mindlessly droning forward. Oversized machine attacks in South Korea, a new tactic. Full integration in Africa."
Staren	The parallel Staren's drawing now is 'What if the TITANs left behind a bunch of AGIs before disappearing from Rory's world'. "It sounds like you're leading towards the conclusion of 'Five god programs have arisen, each trying a seperate tactic'. But it could also be fewer, or more -- each trying multiple things, or multiples cooperating on the same tactic. It could also be that some of them aren't under god program sway at all -- most likely the peaceful ones that don't have mysterious resources. There's also the possibility that someone else has siezed control of a god program for whatever purpose -- possibly even an omnic with a grudge." He takes a seat, folding his hands atop the table. "It sounds like a way is needed to free omnics of god program influence."
Reaper	"Inconclusive if that's possible. There were no AI before the Omniums woke up." States the Reaper, his voice darkening slowly. "It's entirely possible they were created as a natural evolution of the God Programs work. Or it's possible the God Programs were something else that rose simultaneously. It's a 'chemical soup' problem. They're alive, but we don't know how. You're talking about cutting the monkey part out of a mortal human's brain." He hisses softly, cowled head turning as he regards the 'breech' in Egypt. "We've taken a few of the 'civilians' apart, byte by byte, with the assistance of our own omnics." A pause. "Don't be surprised. Few living creatures want to know they're puppets waiting to happen." A slow, dark chuckle, before he continues. "We find nothing conclusive as to whether they're being influenced or if it's a natural evolution of society. But I've drawn the same conclusion you just did." "The mission wasn't finished."
Staren	"I'd be more surprised if you hadn't." Staren stands and paces again. "Perhaps. But we're the Concord. This is the Multiverse. We can cheat. The problem is scale. Getting anti-mind-control spells for an omnic or even a small group of them is well within our means, but an entire world...? We need a solution that works on multiple. Some sort of anti-mind-control beacon, maybe. But how large of an area could such a thing protect? Probably not a whole world. Maybe a city or something. Hmm, need to think better." Pace, pace. "Changing the omnics requires knowledge we don't have about exactly what lets the god programs take over. So that's not really practical..." He stops, scratching his chin. "Perhaps that's the wrong angle. Instead of protecting the omnics, use methods the god programs aren't prepared for to find and neutralize them. Divination spells. Advanced technological analysis of signals in areas where they're clearly working. When they were encountered before, what kind of housing were they in? Was it mobile? Is it possible that if we could find them, and drop some kind of jammer next to them, they'd be rendered powerless without a fight?"
Reaper	A chair is spun about, the Reaper settling into it backwards, his thighs on either side of the back, arms crossing over the top. It's a surprisingly human gesture, despite the smoke that still curls from his cowl and jacket - and even from the flashes of dead pale flesh between bodysuit and gauntlets. "Virtual entities. When I... when Reyes figured out what they were, he went after the hub to deliver the death stroke. They wouldn't integrate with the world's network - I don't know why. Design or simply never occured to them, but I would aim for the former. They knew humans too. Whenever there was a real threat, they'd focus on maximum civilian casualties to draw off invading forces." A pause, and the Reaper's voice darkens. "You'd have to let whole horizons burn to get a sniff of them. Focus on nothing but the mission. That was the only way to stop them; Let everything else die and hope you were fast enough before it all died." "The breech in Egypt shows they've overcome that weakness, whatever it was. But originally they were a single structure, located at or near their omniums. They had full air, ground, and naval superiority, and the ability to intercept ballistics. Strike force was the only effective tactic that worked." The Reaper's masked head turns slightly, a low hiss rippling from his throat. "The only way to test your hypothesis is with a God Program given reign. When Talon joined your organization, we brought remnants of one that was left after it tried to rise in England. Post Omnic Crisis, but before the current one."
Staren	Staren hmms. "So we'd have to fight them anyway. Still, I'm sure the Multiverse can bring to bear capabilities the omnics aren't prepared for -- sorry, the god programs." He looks briefly surprised to learn Talon HAS one. "...Well, since we're having this conversation, I guess noone was able to learn much from it? At least, nothing that makes the process of finding and destroying them much easier."
Reaper	"It was killed." A wave of a clawed hand, before that same arm crosses once more atop the back of the chair. "The Null Sector event. Most of the world assumes it was in retaliation for the abuse of Omnics in England. A home grown rebellion. They even attacked other Omnics who tried to defend humans. BlackWatch knew better; Reyes had seen those tactics before. And OverWatch listened. Eventually." A pause. "After a few thousand deaths. Too busy getting with paperwork and being 'heroes' for the politicians who now ran the division's funding." A low growl, before the Reaper continues. "I .. Reyes had assets on the ground feeding intel as to the God Programs location in King's Row. Overwatch rolled in, and the Null Sector rebellion was put down. With extreme prejudice. The God Program was shattered, or erased, or whatever you call it. All I recovered in my strike force last year were remnants that had begun transmitting again. Must've escaped the clean up."
Staren	Staren nods. SO it's just pieces. Still, if they'd learned anything useful about a new way to stop the god programs, they'd have done it already. "Well. Overwatch... or Talon... aren't alone. Even the Concord's not alone. If we can zero in on the remaining god programs, one by one... I'm sure the Paladins will be all too happy to put a stop to the 'distraction' attacks on civilians while the Concord gets the job done." He rubs his temples. "Of course... we have to be careful about how much damage it causes, all the same. We wouldn't want to sacrifice so much to take them down now, then find out a few years down the line that there was a better way that would have caused less damage even with the wait. If that's even possible. How... bad are the attacks going on, now?"
Reaper	"Russians are doing what russians do best; Dying in droves." Comes the dark laughter of the Reaper, as he adjusts his metal claws. "They had never joined with the UN during the original Crisis. And had managed to shut down their Omnium without Overwatch. What they did with the God Program, I don't know - it's possible they weren't even aware of it. Probable, since it woke back up thirty years later and is performing the exact same tactic it had before. Mass armies of drones, building towards superior numbers, forces, and armanents. They're outdated - so the Russians are winning. But they learn fast." A pause, before the Reaper twists his head sideways. A slow build of tension - a CRK of his neck popping - before he continues. "South Korea is a B-grade horror movie. Giant machines rise from the ocean one at a time or two at a time, paced weeks or months apart. A constant, but not desperate, pressure. If you want to see their front line defense, search information on 'D.Va'. Hana Song. That'll tell you everything you need to know abou their chances." "Australia, we never got to know what was coming. The UN gave the outback to the Omnics to live with their Omnium. The locals didn't like that, and blew it up. Irradiated wasteland and crazed scavengers gnawing on the same bone." "The Americas, you know about. Europe as well, and Africa. Three different types of integration, three different types of subtle manipulation. The Omnics run the backbone of Europe, even if they're basic slave labor. They run the economic foundations of the Americas, in casinos and stock markets. They run society in Africa, as full citizens 'beloved' by their humans. They're the law enforcement and the peace keepers."
Staren	Staren grunts. "Mnnnh. Societal inequality problems grate me, sure, but we have to save the world first. So, if we go after the Russian program, more Russians die. If we go after the South Korean program... Their defenses may or may not be overwhelmed. As a side project, maybe look into a way to fix Australia. I think Kotone Yamakawa's world had to deal with the aftermath of a nuclear war and cleaned it up somehow. Maybe poke the Paladins about that." Staren crosses his arms and lifts one hand to his chin, tapping his foot as he thinks. "...Alright. So there's two clear and active threats. And the possibility of dormant ones that could wreak untold havoc by taking control of omnics in integrated societies. Setting the latter aside for the moment... How bad does Talon project it could get, in Russia and in South Korea, if the god programs there felt threatened?"
Reaper	"Russia? Omnic Crisis levels. The Omnics would have to get to the cities first to begin razing them. The Russians have exiled all omnics from their borders, so there's no internal.. infestation. A normal slug fest. South Korea? .. Worse. There's partial integration, and the breech in Egypt shows that the God Programs can now seize machinery not directly inheriting their Omnic build. They'd be fighting from the inside out." "The biggest death toll will be Africa. Full integration. Null Sector was working from the ground up; Their forces were isolated and already quarantined into single locations. It wasn't difficult to pinpoint where that God Program sprouted. In Africa, the machine population is only slightly smaller than the human population. Every neighbor, every vendor, every store, every peace keeper would be a death squad. Second biggest? Americas. Third, Europe. Of them all, the radioactive crazed madmen of Australia's Junkertown would survive the best. There are no Omnics on that entire countinent, beyond the coast." "Social integration can wait; Death comes, Staren."
Staren	Staren hmms. "How far can the god programs reach? If we go after the one in Russia, could it control omnics around the world, or only nearby?"
Reaper	"We don't know." Comes the frank and dead toned answer. "The first full scale incursion was going to be the end of humanity. There wasn't a chance to test the range, but it appeared to affect every machine created by that Program's omnium. The second incursion didn't get a chance to grow far; Null Sector managed to kill a few thousand humans, but only due to the population density. There are verified reports of uncontrolled omnics attempting to defend humans as well, or fighting back. Ones or twos, nothing en masse. We don't know if they were out of range, too evolved, or simply hadn't been exposed long enough to .. whatever it is the God Programs are doing. There was no Omnium that we found; The Null Sector forces seemed to spontaneously appear, and to self modify. They also began painting graffiti and symbols as they spread and absorbed neighboring regions; That was new." "It's possible that going after the Russian God Program will only heighten aggressive and re-target those alone. It's equally possible that it'll trigger a massive earth-wide turn of Omnics. The only solution I've come up so far.. is death. De-integration. Isolation and containment, socially and economically, before the trigger is pulled." "War before they're ready for it, to weaken their initial force before moving against the root. Others in Talon are aiming for the same goal - for their own purposes."
Staren	Staren hmms. "Null Sector might have been using the graffiti to spread somehow. Or maybe not and it served some other purpose." Staren shakes his head and resumes pacing. "Rounding up and relocating omnics or humans, even temporarily, is one of those things that will just never go over well. A small fraction will probably willingly relocate, but that won't help much. That's a problem you need some sort of social genius to solve... and an /ethical/ one. Getting everyone to hate omnics so they're driven out, for instance, obviously isn't acceptable. We need more information. Has anyone in the Concord gotten to study the pieces you have yet? Even if it's not a whole god machine... perhaps people from other worlds will spot something Talon's researchers missed."
Reaper	"Ethics are for debriefing and debate teams. There is the mission first, foremost, and nothing else." States the Reaper's reverberating voice, dark as ink curdling in milk, before he leans back a bit, claws still digging into the back of the armchair. "And I didn't say 'relocate'. Our current program is stirring up the fight between humans and omnics to increase social tensions. It may not be 'morally' acceptable - but we're not working on our timeline. We're working on theirs. And the alternative is not -just- failure. We have experts in the field, mortal and omnic, to break apart the dichotomy. It's working in Europe - it's begun working in the Americas as well. Our focus is on accelerating that process." "I do not know if the Concord has begun studying the remnants we turned over. I don't even know if they understood -what- we were turning over, or how critical it was. But Talon has learned what it can from them, and we have a copy of the data." "Talent is more precious than gold to Talon, Staren. If this was an easy solution, we would've found it already. That's what I need from you - perspective. I don't expect you to solve this. For all that you are.. you are still just a mortal. I am Death incarnate, and my 'solutions' come from what I know."
Staren	Staren folds his hands behind his back and turns at Gabe to glare at him. "Ethics are /not/ for debriefing and debate teams. Ethics are the /goal/. Ethics are the /reason/ to do anything. Without them, what goal are you serving? You're proposing this course of action, why? Because you want to save people? Because you care about them in some sense? If so, that's ethics, and you need to ask yourself, if your goal of saving people is really best served by starting a war." Staren begins pacing. "You say it's important to focus on the mission. But ethics are how you choose your missions in the first place." "You're right that it's too big for any one person to solve. We need more information. Has anyone done comparative studies on the omnics who seemed immune, compared to omnics who were controlled by the god programs? Maybe there's some difference that's detectable, and we can 'immunize' omnics at risk, like vaccinating humans. Maybe those who've been controlled and survived have some clue left inside them."
Reaper	"The goal is to save humanity. That was the original mission, now unfinished. I don't want to save -people-; Mortals are born, live and die, as is their nature. But if this incursion is not halted - then humanity itself will fall. There will be nothing left." Begins the Reaper with a snarl as Staren glares, straightening up out of the chair. The dark smoke pouring off his figure, now, coiling about his feet, curling around the surfaces of the table. "Ethics are not my concern. Effeciency, is. The fallout can be dealt with in the future, once there is a future. And right now - yes. It -is- best served by starting a war. Driving out Omnics or killing them doesn't trigger the God Programs. Putting the God Programs at risk triggers them. It's possible that our tactics will eventually alert them that we know they exist; That they might logically dictate they are under threat. But there is no alternative. Either we act, or we do not, and the choice was made. Does humanity live - or does it die?" And then he calms himself, although he does take time to kick the chair across the room. The creak of metal as he flexes his fingers in the clawed gauntlets, hard enough to cause them to ping softly. "We've never come across an Omnic that was controlled and is no longer. We've exposed Omnics to .. remnants of the God Program. There was no alteration that we could find. It's possible there was, and that the Omnic was 'seeded' somehow. But after a few months we terminated the subjects. We couldn't release them, not with the knowledge that might trigger the God Programs. The multiverse offers... a few more opportunities in that regards."
Staren	Staren shrugs. "You're in the Multiverse now. Humanity will be fine. The god programs couldn't come close to eliminating them from the Multiverse. You want to save your world. But what does that really mean? Omnics are part of your world. You can save some humans and build a future without the god machines... But what makes that future any more worth saving, to you, than if the god machines killed them all, and you were to point to some other world in the Multiverse and say 'But humanity lives on, here.'?"
Reaper	"'There's too many to kill' is not a valid defensive strategy." Begins Reaper, his laughter slow and dark like bubbles rising from molasses. "Believe me. There are more bullets in the multiverse than there are people." Thick arms cross about his chest once again, heavy metal boots spread to shoulder width apart. Cowled head dipping slightly in thought as he considers; Not Staren's last words, no. Useless. Rather, the suggestions he had put forward. "But you've hit the same conclusion I have. But offered.. other opportunities. Are you going to have time to look into this situation, or are you returning to your own problems?"
Staren	"I'm sure. But invading other worlds, while dealing with the remnants of Overwatch attacking the god machines with nothing to lose, nothing to distract them, doesn't sound like a good prospect for the god machines." He sighs. "It's true that there are for more problems in the Multiverse than I can attend to at once. My doppelganger called me out on failing to properly attend to Lumiere. And stopping your war would be beyond me, and pointless without a better solution anyway." "...I can at least follow up on the pieces of the dead god program. See if it yields any more options." He stares into space for a moment, then looks at Reaper. "...Did you get the... perspective you were hoping for, from this meeting?"
Reaper	"That's only if they can't reproduce and create more God Machines. Seed them in other worlds with robotic life, or robotic forms advanced enough to be 'modified'. Plant themselves in more primative worlds that do not have a way to defend their resources. Life finds a way; Death cuts it short." States the dark cowled man, before he turns his head, matching Staren's look with the empty black 'sockets' of his mask. "I am the Angel of Death, Staren. I am the antipathesis of hope. But yes.. I got what I wanted."
Staren	Staren shrugs. "Fair enough. I'm certainly not advocating allowing the god machines to exterminate humanity on your world, in any case. We can agree that pretty much any other outcome is better." "Perhaps... we don't have to think in absolutes. Pieces of multiple plans can be combined. The world may be plunged into war, but some form of offworld sanctuary colonies could be set up. Some people could live in peace. If we DO somehow develop jammers, even a single city, sealed up and saved from war, would be better than none." He walks around the table to extend a hand to Reaper. "Thanks for meeting with me. I hope that studying the pieces leads somewhere, but if not... I hope your war ends well, for your world."
Reaper	A noncommital noise at the mention of offworld sanctuaries, but the Reaper doesn't dismiss it out of hand. Quite the opposite, in fact - that masked head tilting in thought. But for now, the masked wraith glances down to the proffered hand - And grips it in his own. Cold metal gauntlets, sharp claws, but a firm squeeze none the less. Wrist to wrist, rather than hand to hand. And then he nods beyond the missive room. "You know the way back to the gate; You've been granted clearance to use this room while you're here, if you stay for longer. It'll have data access to the details of some of what we learned from the remnant, to get you started." "For now, though.. Death walks." With that odd statement, the Reaper steps backwards - and just dissolves. Solid to bubbling smoke in a moment, flitting away in every direction towards vents. Guess he had somewhere to be?