View source for 5248/The Warp Iris: Debate

{{Log Header
|Date of Scene=2017/05/09
|Location=The Tapestry
|Synopsis=A heated debate on the matter of what to do about the Warp Iris.
|Cast of Characters=562, 894, 1107, 385, 127, 325, 7, 972
|pretty=yes
}}
{{Poses
|Poses=:'''{{#var:562|Eryl Fairfax (562)}} has posed:'''<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;For the discussion that is about to ensue, Eryl has invited parties into a Paladin embassy in some large 21st century urban sprawl. Perhaps he means it as a gesture of trust, to ensure that the discussion would be civil. Or maybe as a gesture of power, to enforce that things be civil.<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Those who replied to the open initiation are issues visitor passes and subsequently directed to the meeting room via holographic arrows. The room is a Spartan thing of off-white tones. A rectangular table surrounded by chairs that automatically adjust themselves for the ideal configuration to your body. Holographic screens are also in display here, showing information relevant to the Warp Iris case, as well as screens of gender-natural silhouettes. They carry names of leaders from Commonwealth-aligned states and corporations who are intent on observing the meeting.<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Eryl is already here, at the head of the table. He has a benign, honest smile for all who arrive, and a gesture for them to take a seat. Once everyone arrives, he says, "I now call this meeting regarding the matter of Loci Iris, AKA the Warp Iris to order. This meeting is being recorder for future reference. The security level is Medium-Low, meaning details are available on request to all after an initial background check."<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;He gestures, and a holographic screen takes up the middle of the table, depicting the Warp Iris. "As a quick refresher, Loci Iris is an extradimensional being, seemingly the result of a failed universe becoming sentient. They, by their very nature, will apparently cause great distress in sapient beings by sheer proximity. However, they come across as peaceable and nonviolent. Potential futures observed by Inga suggest that multiple futures in which Loci Iris is allowed to interact with the Multiverse will end poorly. The goal of this meeting is to come to a consensus as to how to approach the matter. Are there any questions before we begin?"<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:894|August Kohler (894)}} has posed:'''<br>It might be kind of odd for a 17 year old in a hoodie and jeans to be brought into a meeting room with the Grandmaster of the Paladins. But even if the fact that August is the Cloak is still a secret outside the Watch, it's still the Multiverse, and he's still actively involved in the Warp Iris case, ever since he tried to murder it. The redheaded German takes a seat at the table, barely even looking at the holographs (which he shows his distaste of somewhat visibly), before moving and waiting for everyone to sit. His eyes scry across the faces of everyone there, analyzing them, as Eryl talks.<br><br>And then, Eryl finishes his briefing, and asks for questions. August raises his hand for a second before speaking. "I've got one. Why are we even having this meeting instead of just killing the damn thing? We know what it's capable of, which is terrible, horrible things. We have several potential futures which show that terrible horrible things will happen and that in the end there's no point in keeping it alive. Sure, it's theoretically a person. But it's also an incredibly dangerous person that is incapable of coexisting and has abilities that no person should be able to gain access to, like, iunno, warp gate creation?" August gestures at everyone. "No?"<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:1107|Jonathan Joestar (1107)}} has posed:'''<br>Jonathan makes sure his dress is both prim and proper.<br><br>The man was a giant. His black hair was attempting to wildly pop out from its slicked back status, barely confined by years of training into what very nearly classified as a mullet, if not for being just too short at the neck for such. He was garbed in red dress pants and bright, shiny shoes with star shaped buckles on them. His star-patterned white dress shirt and bola-tie-cravat completed the ensemble, with a fanciful silk jacket left at the coat-rack. "While I understand the threat this entity possesses, it would behoove us to avoid stooping so low as to murder a presumable innocent without first thoroughly determining what other courses of action exist."<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Jonathan's voice is stern, but even.<br><br>"While you said that a..'Inga' observed several futures, that doesn't truly give concrete evidence to the futility of another route. If you flip a coin ten times, and it lands on its head eight of those times, that does not mean flipping it ten more times will yield the same result. It may be a round-about comparison, but what I'm attempting to get at, is that we live in a multiverse. There are an infinite number of outcomes to any given situation, as such, I'd question the validity of these precognitive visions on that merit alone."<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:385|Yuna Kagurazaka (385)}} has posed:'''<br>This, it occurs to Yuna, must be exactly why Elner went and commissioned a uniform for her to wear in her capacity as the Savior of Light. It certainly feels more appropriate to a meeting like this than if she were outfitted in her Light Suit - the most dangerous things that should be exchanged over this table are words, after all, and if anything breaks down into physical (or otherwise non-verbal) conflict, then something's gone horribly wrong.<br><br>Of course Elner is here as well, the little robo-faerie hovering by Yuna's shoulder, monitoring (and possibly recording) as Yuna herself looks about the meeting room on her arrival, and then listens to Eryl and to others. Still, sub-rosa Watch connections or not, Yuna can't help but wince at August's immediate re-proposal of killing Loci Iris out of hand.<br><br>"August, if you want to be technical about it, most of us in this room are capable of terrible, horrible things," Yuna points out, seeming almost sheepish about raising that point. "That's what being Elites has been about ever since the Union and the Confederacy were founded, and it hasn't changed *that* much with their collapse and the establishment of the Commonwealth, the Paladins, and so forth. I happen to agree, though," she continues, looking around at those present (and those telepresent), "that ... well, I'm not really at ease with the idea of someone, or some specific group, having free access to Loci Iris's ability to generate warpgates. And as much as I want her to learn friendship from inside - by being friends with some of us - I don't know what it'll feel like to let her learn it directly from me, the way she's learned by direct contact with others."<br><br>Yuna pauses, pursing her lips and looking at the holographic projection. "Inga's foresight was for the potential futures that existed at the moment she observed them, right?" she asks - mostly directing the question to Eryl. "So, is it possible that there are futures which can develop which she *didn't* see? Don't we owe it to Loci Iris to try and reach out for a better future?"<br><br>She looks around the room again. "Isn't reaching out for better futures what a lot of us have BEEN doing, for that matter? Not just since our respective worlds Unified, but since before that?"<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:127|Kirikou (127)}} has posed:'''<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Trusting in the nature of the open invite, not to mention that factions now are just in conflict rather than at war, Kirikou Rung's left his weapons at home. Well, he still carries guns, but his Weapons that he's most infamous for, they're elsewhere. They don't really have any interest in politics or in discussions like this. Bringing them would be the wrong sort of distraction.<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Kirikou's about the same age as August, but he's different in most other ways. He's wearing a suit and glasses, the combination almost outweighing his youth, his cornrow hair, and his fighter's muscular build. The even covers up his pistols as if he isn't even wearing them, though he would've revealed them to security and even given them up if asked to.<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;He looks over at August. The other boy took some of his questions straight off. Rather than flail about, Kirikou quickly shifts his approach. Let the other youth handle the voice of the opposition for now. "If your seer has seen several bad futures, should we assume she's seen nothing but bad futures? Or is there a possibility of good you're holding out for here?" he asks. "Of course that doesn't mean that these visions should be trusted at all. I've never put much faith in the visions of witches, but as long as they're on the table I'd rather know all the details."<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:894|August Kohler (894)}} has posed:'''<br>"Do you passively inflict nightmares and mental pain on anyone you're around?" August queries Yuna as she fires back, resting a hand under his chin. "No?" Regarding the 'possible futures everyone keeps arguing, August just sighs. "Sure, the future might be able to be changed. The Warp Iris is still a threat and I know there's been reports of people trapped in nightmares from it. Or from it creating warpgates to places based off people's memories? What if it decides to be an asshole? What if someone else manipulates it, like that Chaos cultist almost did? Why do we care about one abomination that has harmed multiple people /simply by existing/?"<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:325|Rhapsody (325)}} has posed:'''<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;While just a little late to arrive, the Guildmaster of the Izzet slips through the doors and is on her way to a seat as the proceedings begin. As Eryl finishes speaking, she starts to answer, but pauses as other voices are raised first. August, Jon, and Yuna, all voicing their own opinions on the matter. With their parts done, Rhapsody begins to voice her own thoughts. <br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;"Who are we to determine the fate of something that is as sentient as any of us in this room? For centuries, the Izzet League has heard the other guilds of Ravnica call for our dismissal due to the science we research. While it is, as many know, quite explosive in the most literal of senses, the progress that we bring to our own world proves that we have earned our place. I am certainly not going to agree that simply killing this being outright is the only goal. It's as that man said," she motions to JoJo, "You can flip a coin plenty of times, but the result can always be different. And who is to say the coin lands heads or tails? It could land on it's edge, just the same. We can do better than 'murder'. Why not innovate, think outside the box, and come up with something that works instead of something that is just black or white?"<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:7|Kotone Yamakawa (7)}} has posed:'''<br>Kotone Yamakawa has mixed feelings about this situyation but does understand Eryl's point the thing was yes clear. There had to be a call made and it wasn't as clear as she first thought it was. UIt wasn't an easy call eitehr way and she moves to sit ina nd listen for the moment. She is here because she's had experiance with the thing she isn't a power player by any measure of it. Well at least as she does, some might see her social network of friends both inside and outside the Paladins far differently. <br><br> She will say her peace though killing something on what it might do. Rather than what it has done. Is something that has weighted upon Kotone since it came up. <br><br> It may be a case of finding this thing a place where it can live right? <br><br> "Some people on my work think much the same about cyborgs like myself. It's something to consider, there may be a region of the multiverse it's far better suited to..."<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:894|August Kohler (894)}} has posed:'''<br>August sighs. "Alright, then. We lock it in a sealed container somewhere and drop it into an abyss where nobody can go. Maybe ward the container. That way it gets to live but it's impossible for anyone to be harmed. Sounds better? Or even more barbaric?"<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:325|Rhapsody (325)}} has posed:'''<br>Rhapsody peers across the table at August, "Would you want to have that happen to you?"<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:894|August Kohler (894)}} has posed:'''<br>"In this scenario? I'd rather you just kill me." August's response is rapid, seconds. But those who know him should have expected that response.<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:1107|Jonathan Joestar (1107)}} has posed:'''<br>Politely, Jonathan doesn't immediately rebuke August's question. It was not yet his turn to speak again; he supposed this would function very similarly to the meetings his Father would have with the officials in London, of which he'd been witness to. But when he does have the chance to address it... "Because, Mister Kohler, if you don't try to save one life then how could you ever save any? Despite the threat posed, the entity in question is not inherently hostile nor is it unintelligent. What you propose is murder by any other name and on no grounds further than the possibility of a threat."<br><br>Jonathan nods in agreement with Rhapsody. "And, your second suggestion as well could be detrimental. If I may, does anyone here actually know anything about this Loci Iris' biology? What about it causes the effects of severe mental strain? Determining these factors would be a step towards being able to coexist."<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:127|Kirikou (127)}} has posed:'''<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Kirikou shakes his head almost sadly. The voice of reason... him. Man, sometimes it sucks to have actually scored well in Death Academy's political studies as well as being one of the top demon-killers.<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;"Where I'm from, when we find someone who's a danger to everyone by their very nature, we kill them." he says. He pauses just a second to let outrage build, then interrupts it. "But I got several of that type of person as my friends. They're drawn to destruction by their nature, by their powers, but they choose to live in peace and resist their nature. So I say let 'em live as long as they continue to resist the madness of destruction." he grins, teeth gleaming white.<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;"Is that the case here though?" he asks. "Is this Warp thing even capable of resisting its destructive nature? I think we need to consider this, just as the big guy there suggests." he says, gesturing to Jonathan Joestar. "I'd be happy to give it a chance despite the risk, if there's a chance it's harmless. Maybe it'll even become a friend like a couple witches I know. But if the honest answer to the question is that it can't change its nature, then I don't see that there's much question left here. Just whether or not people have the guts to do the right thing."<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:972|Reimu Hakurei (972)}} has posed:'''<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Right in the middle of the meeting, the automatic doors open up to reveal a young girl wearing a dress who happened to be holding a stick with elaborately folded paper in her left hand. As she walks into the room, she dusts herself off before heading over to the table. <br> <br> "It took me a long time to get here after the apparent reorganization of the multiverse and I got lost. Anyway, if this is anything like Clownpiece, then we'll probably be fine. However, since this is apparently, a sentient universe, I'm wondering if the people inside of it might be a concern." <br> <br>

:'''{{#var:385|Yuna Kagurazaka (385)}} has posed:'''<br>It's reassuring to Yuna that she's not the only one holding out for saving Loci Iris's life if at all possible, and she smiles at Jonathan and Rhapsody as they express their shared feelings. It is less than reassuring that August is still digging his heels in on that point ...<br><br>But then, Yuna has a sense of where he's coming from. He recruited *her* to that last 'meeting' to help destroy it, after all, and her first impression was so horrifyingly nightmarish that she almost *did*.<br><br>"August, right now, Loci Iris just barely knows that we can suffer and that we prefer *not* to suffer," Yuna points out. "And if I remember the events of that last meeting correctly, she's just learning that there might be a way to co-exist with us without inflicting that kind of anguish on us. If Wyrdseeker has his way and recruits the Warp Iris to his cause, then yes, we will have a very big problem - which is why I'd rather focus my efforts on stopping him from recruiting Loci Iris to Chaos's side in the first place. But in the meantime?"<br><br>Yuna pauses, taking a deep breath, and letting it out slowly. "Rhapsody and her family have gone through Hell because the humans and near-humans of Ravnica were too scared to think of anything other than their fear. But to those of us who know Rhapsody, she's a dear friend and a valued ally. If you're going to let your fear be the only thing you pay attention to, August, then if push comes to shove, I'll summon Shugoseiheki and shelter Loci Iris behind myself, with all the strength I have."<br><br>She looks at Jonathan, then at Kirikou. "If it turns out that Loci Iris really is only a danger, or *chooses* to be a danger to us and to others, then .... then there will be no choice in the matter, and we'll have to try to ... drive her off, banish her, maybe destroy her if that's what it comes to. But until she understands the difference between 'hurting people' and 'not hurting people,' we'd be killing a child who doesn't know how *or why* to control her power."<br><br>Yuna looks down at the table's surface, her fingers interlacing, almost knotting. Now that she's tried to put her thoughts into words, it feels even worse than when the concepts were still relatively abstract in her brain. Reimu's addition about 'people inside' the Warp Iris actually makes her wince openly - she hadn't even thought of that herself.<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:562|Eryl Fairfax (562)}} has posed:'''<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;If Eryl is vexed by August's directness, it doesn't show on his face. "We are having this meeting because murder, even state-sanctified murder, is nothing to be taken lightly. Yes, we have prophetic visions that terrible things may happen. However, it is a Commonwealth guideline to be wary of such things. One never knows how reliable they are, or if they are shaped by the biases of the prophet."<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;He keeps rolling too. "And if your justification is that 'the power to generate warp gates is dangerous,' I note that there are many individuals with similar powers, such as teleportation. I'm curious, where do you draw the line Mister Kohler? At what point does someone become too dangerous to let live?" Eryl may be a bastion of cold logic, but some of those silhouettes on the screen seemed a little nervous at that last statement. Could it be that the Watch Cloak has some allies among those faceless leaders?<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;As Reimu arrives, he smiles and gestures for her to sit. "No trouble at all. However, we have confirmed that Loci Iris is the result of a universe that failed to properly start. I doubt it could sustain life at all." <br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;He looks around the room at everyone. Most seem to agree that working to spare Loci Iris. Indeed, that is the prevailing opinion in the room. And yet, nothing good ever came of letting a dissenting opinion be drowned out. The corners of his mouth lower, and he adds, "Although, may here seem to hold that we should not kill it because 'it is sapient.' Does that really matter so much?"<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;He looks around the room and continues. "I'm sure many here have taken the life of a sapient being before. And perhaps several lives that were not. Does the capacity to comprehend higher concepts really make a life so sacred? Does it make those that cannot forfeit? Is it permissible to kill a dog, but not a human? An insect, but not a human? For all we know, the Loci Iris is more intelligent than we, and able to comprehend things far beyond our imagining. Would that make it permissible for it to kill us?"<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;He offers no answers for himself. He's probing the minds of everyone here; 'why would it be okay to kill Loci Iris, beyond the fact it's a potential threat? Where do we draw the line?'<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:972|Reimu Hakurei (972)}} has posed:'''<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The smile that was on her face begins to fade immediately. "Well, that's a bit of a disappointment. Honestly, the best bet if you're not going for peace is banishment after talking it out. It's harsh, but killing it doesn't seem to be the best idea. Besides, how would you go about killing an entire universe? Honestly, just let it live since if you somehow have the ability to destroy an entire universe, does it really matter how strong it can become?" <br> <br>

:'''{{#var:894|August Kohler (894)}} has posed:'''<br>August stares blankly at Jonathan. His expression goes cold for a moment. "You can't save everyone. People die. This is a /fact/ of life, and sometimes, they have to die." It's sort of clear on his face that August isn't yet entirely sure he believes this, but he's saying it anyways. Then, several more people speak. First, he replies to Yuna. "That's not even remotely a good argument. Plain out racism isn't the same as advocating against a creature that has done nothing of good, that has caused several people harm, still trapped in their nightmares. Do you think they'd want to give it another chance? Saying it deserves another chance because 'it can learn', what if it doesn't? And what about the risk as we try to teach it? What if, while we're trying to teach it, it accidentally tears someone's mind apart? What if it accidentally creates a warpgate to someone's hometown, and everyone there gets inflicted with nightmares? What if it was Tokyo, Kagurazaka? What if everyone in your Tokyo was getting inflicted by nightmares simply because the Warp Iris decided to stroll in one day, were suffering simply because this thing was /there/? You'd still feel fine with your choice because it's a goddamn 'child'?" He doesn't comment on her standing against him. August isn't going to.<br><br>His tack turns towards Eryl, actually, as he replies. "Honestly? Depends on how they teleport. Can they easily, passively rip locations out of your mind and create portals there, and they either passively or actively will cause harm there? Then, yeah, they're too dangerous. If your existence is harmful, then you shouldn't exist." Eryl's been told that August has this same belief about himself, so the fact that it comes out with sheer conviction shouldn't be unbelievable.<br><br>And then, August just stares at Reimu, slowly. "I'm pretty sure we could kill it. It was just a huge tentacled horror. Could always go Cthulhu and ram a boat into it. Needless to say, we could totally murder it if we actually worked together and put effort into it. Yeah, murder. I accept that this is, for all intents and purposes, /murder/. But vigilante justice is a thing, and I'm sure saying that I approve of it isn't a big surprise, seeing as Fairfax knows exactly who I affiliate with."<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:127|Kirikou (127)}} has posed:'''<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Kirikou glances around, tallying stances and sides. A high number of people here are in favor of saving the thing. August seems to have some willingness to do what needs doing, but he's making the others angry. It's a tough stance to take and the Meister can respect it, but Kirikou decides he can't take that same stance. Not in the same manner at least. But he CAN offer August some support, by taking a different approach.<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;"All due respect." Kirikou says. "The question isn't whether or not it's innocent. I don't think anyone here would argue it's willfully destroying people with its presence. The question is whether or not there's even a hope of it being able to change. I offer two questions. One, to our host here." He stands, sweeping a hand to Eryl. "Has your seer seen any reason to believe there's a future where this creature's spared and good comes of it?"<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;He then sweeps out his arm to the room at large. "And to everyone else. If there's a hope of redeeming it, how many innocent lives would you be willing to see destroyed before you're willing to act? I believe we have to be CERTAIN it's capable of redemption before we extend it that chance. We know many innocents that can be redeemed, and more power to someone willin' to give their lives for that." he says, nodding his head to Yuna. "But up 'till now I don't see any evidence that this creature is redeemable. Just a lot of wishful thinking. And I'm worried that wishful thinking's going to ruin a lot of lives."<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:325|Rhapsody (325)}} has posed:'''<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;A soft smile is sent along the table to Yuna. It was refreshing to have people around that understood the angle at which Rhapsody was coming from. Her family had gone through enough in the last few years. Her most recent experience, watching everyone go chasing after Yunomi felt as though it was repeating with this Iris entity. In the end, Yunomi was proven innocent in the face of mounds of evidence to the contrary.<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;As August speaks, the Izzet Guildmaster responds, "How can anyone know how this creature thinks or feels. We aren't it. If it's just a child, then it is possible that it's abilities could change. It could learn to control what it does to others. Even my own father's abilities changed dramatically after being alive for 10,000 years. My own abilities have been changing in the short time since he's been gone. We have no way of knowing just what she will be able to do. Yes, it could become a horrible enemy and use all of its abilities against us, but the opposite is also true. It could become something incredible that could help us in the long run. If it's sentient? It could have as much ability to do good as it does evil. It's not fair to assume that everything it may do in the future is entirely negative, August. It may be able to reverse its abilities. The problem with everything we're going on about right now? It's all hypothetical."<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;And time to prove just what Rhapsody is the guildmaster of. "What we -need- to do is see if it -can- learn. If it -can- change. If it can stop hurting people. We can argue in circles for hours about what it has done, and what it -may- do, but until we actually know what it -will- do, I don't think we can decide to kill it outright, if we can at all."<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:894|August Kohler (894)}} has posed:'''<br>August glances towards Kirikou. There's a brief nod, as if he appreciates that someone is atleast backing him up in some way. And then, he stares at Rhapsody, asking her a question. "So, you want to wait it out, see if, /over time/, it changes? Even when right now it's harmful? Even when right now, people are in pain? You want to wait possibly hundreds or thousands of years? What about all the innocent people in that time frame? It's fine if they're inflicted with nightmares as long as our good friend Warp Iris becomes nice and can control its powers 'maybe eventually'?"<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:127|Kirikou (127)}} has posed:'''<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;"I agree with the Guildmaster." Kirikou says abruptly. "But I dispute her conclusion. We need to see if it -can- learn. Unless we can learn that, we can't afford to let it live."<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:972|Reimu Hakurei (972)}} has posed:'''<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Reimu merely glances over to August as well and opens her mouth in disappointment before promptly closing it. As she rubs her temples, she continues, <br> <br> "Then just go ahead and ask it then. If you're worried about it harming others, then just keep it away from them and slowly have it adjust in an isolated location. Also, can it even speak in the same language as us?"<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:325|Rhapsody (325)}} has posed:'''<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The answer causes the guildmaster to heave a sigh, "I'm not saying wait forever, August, but it at least deserves a chance to let us see if it -can- learn or change its powers. If we didn't give -anyone- a second chance, I'm not sure many of us would be at this table, at all," Rhapsody explains, starting to wonder if her logic is even worth pursuing further given the amount of rejection that's being thrown back. <br> <br>

:'''{{#var:1107|Jonathan Joestar (1107)}} has posed:'''<br>Jonathan gives a small and polite wave to the shrine maiden as she makes her entrance, another voice was always welcome. Well, he supposed that shouldn't be taken literally, but none the less ... after listening to Eryl's take, Jonathan waits to reiterates himself, for clarity. He assumed that he'd mis-spoken rather than the other man propping up a straw-argument in a conversation he had seemingly, total neutrality in. Unfortunately, he didn't have the space to stay concise by contesting the morality of August's stances, so he bites it back.<br><br>"It is less of a matter of its sapience alone and more along the lines of what sapience entails. The ability to think, comprehend, and reason, then that would mean, as has been reasoned by Miss..Rhapsody, I believe? That the Loci Iris is capable of both good and evil. With no evidence to support that it is inherently malicious or that it is otherwise harming others intentionally, or that it can not abstain from causing that harm, taking un-due violence against it is not only inadvisable but in my opinion, morally reprehensible. Once again, I have to pose this question that has gone unanswered. What do we know about its biology?"<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;He looks to Kirikou, waiting for him to finish and for anyone else who wishes to speak to do so before responding. "That's making several assumptions. Firstly, that the precognitive peeks taken by the Seer are in any way truly representative of our own future and secondly, that the Loci Iris is doing this with <span class="underline fg_n bg_n ++ u">intent.</span> We do not know enough about it or its abilities to actually gauge whether or not it is as you put it, 'irredeemable'. Acting despite that lack of information would be very rash."<br><br>Jonathan nods at the near mutual agreement, before motioning to Reimu. "The Miss here has a good point. If there are ways to contain it or her to where it or her is for now, provided that is not where it can accidentally harm someone, then that seems like the best course of action for the moment."<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:894|August Kohler (894)}} has posed:'''<br>"It barely knows what concepts are. We literally taught it how to learn last time we met it, when it was giving people seizures while it probed their brain. It's learned how to communicate telepathically." And then, August frowns at Reimu. It's a hard frown, before he turns to Eryl. "Grandmaster Fairfax. I assume the people who were inflicted with nightmares by it have been seperated from it for a while. Do they still have the nightmares?"<br><br>A brief glance towards Rhapsody. "I agree with Kirikou on this regard about 'learning'. Either it proves it can learn, and it can learn /quickly/, or we kill it."<br><br>Jonathan than speaks again, and August looks up at the massive man. "Intent is irrelevant, Joestar. Even I don't think it's doing this on purpose. It's still doing it. It's still hurting people. Which is why, once again, I ask, Grandmaster Fairfax, are people still being inflicted by the nightmares despite being separated from it?"<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:385|Yuna Kagurazaka (385)}} has posed:'''<br>"We already know that it *can* learn, and we know how it's done so thus far," Yuna points out - rather softer now, maybe going unheard at first.<br><br>Because August drove home the stakes on the other side of the question: many, many innocent lives, too many to count, who would suffer while Yuna wants to protect Loci Iris and give her the chance to learn. But in a way, that's what it all comes back to as well ...<br><br>Still, Yuna turns her attention to Eryl first. "I would say that killing should be an absolute last resort, when there's no other way to protect innocents from irreparable harm. I'd rather fight a villain, even my worst enemy, a hundred or a thousand times with the hope of redemption than to kill her out of hand just because she's threatened too many people. So ... part of the question may have to be what harm has the Warp Iris already done to people."<br><br>"But we may have to suffer ourselves to help teach Loci Iris ..." Yuna trails off, grimacing. "I think the first thing I really learned about the Warp Iris was that she's an infovore, it literally eats knowledge. That's how she's done most of her learning so far, assimilating it directly from other people - I think Eryl himself was one of them?" she asks the Paladins' leader, seeking clarification. "But with that said ..."<br><br>Yuna takes a deep breath, and gets to her feet. "I offer to teach Loci Iris what I know - all that I know - of friendship, of love for others, of the desire to protect them. I'm ... I'm scared about what it'll involve, yes. I don't know what it'll do to me in the longer term. But I have to make this effort."<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:127|Kirikou (127)}} has posed:'''<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Kirikou glances around again. Some interesting points, truly. And he's not 100% sold on his path either. He kills monsters that used to be people, and sometimes monsters that were never people. That's his job, but it's not everything he is at heart.<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;That said, some points have been made. He nods to Jonathan Joestar. "Again all due respect, I don't assume it intends harm." he says. "I don't care about its intent. If it does harm, and we can't be sure it's even capable of intending to do otherwise, I think we need to act." he clarifies.<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Yuna gets a surprised look, and even a nod of respect. THAT he can approve of. Not just putting your life on the line for your principles, but actually stepping up and assuming all the risk while finding out whether or not it's a good idea. "You got guts." he says with admiration. "That'd be one way to find out if it's able to understand what it's doing. If it's capable of changing and becoming 'safe'. It's immediate enough an action that I think we can agree it's worth not taking immediate and final action." Kirikou says. "Plus of course if it destroys her mind and still doesn't learn enough that we can hope it's trustable, we at least won't have to fight Miss Yuna first to get at it." he adds, perhaps unnecessarily cynically.<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:325|Rhapsody (325)}} has posed:'''<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;A bit of relief shows on Rhapsody's face when it seems that giving Iris a chance to learn seems to be accepted. Phew. "Thank you, August, a chance is all I was hoping for," she admits. When Yuna offers herself up to attempt to teach the creature, there's a look of shock on the dragon's face initially, but it turns to understanding as Yuna explains. "Yuna.." she wants to say -something- but the words aren't forming. On one hand there's concern for what the Iris could do, but on the other, there's hope for what the Iris could learn. <br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;"This is exactly what the coin flip could be. This could end up either disasterous or delightful, and I really hope for the latter, Yuna, but maybe their could be a failsafe for you? A way to pull you back to safety if needed. I'm sure the Izzet could cook up something, or someone here.. but if you do this, it has to be in some kind of controlled environment to ensure your safety," as well as the Iris... but that little bit doesn't get said.<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:562|Eryl Fairfax (562)}} has posed:'''<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Eryl glances at Reimu and gives her a quick update. "Yes, it can. During our last meeting, Flamel Parsons the Psychonaut willingly fed it so it may learn speech, among other things. Ergo, it does have the capacity to learn, but the fastest method does involve directly devouring the information from people's minds. This does not erase the idea. Think of the brain like a fertile field and the thoughts and concepts we can image are the crops that grow there. Loci Iris eats the crops, but uproots them violently enough to disturb the field, but not beyond repair."<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;He gives August a long look before answering. "They are undergoing therapy, and showing improvement. But they occasionally have those nightmares again. It is too soon to say for certain. Perhaps they will never fully recover." Those silhouettes shift and seem to talk among themselves on some closed band. That's awfully damning.<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The discussion is getting a little circular here, so he cuts through it by addressing Yuna. "Well, we have a volunteer to help Loci Iris learn prosocial behaviours. We appreciate your willingness, Miss Kagurazaka." He looks around the table. "It seems that many here, including Mister Kohler, are in favor of giving Loci Iris a single chance to prove themselves. Let us put it to a vote then. If you agree, raise your right hand. If not, raise your left."<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Eryl raises his own right hand.<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:972|Reimu Hakurei (972)}} has posed:'''<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The young shrine maiden turns her head over to August and sighs once more, <br> "Considering that I've actually dealt with beings like this before, it's not all that new to me other than the information eating. Let's just be thankful that it can't make attacks from our worst memories. That's something that you do not want to go through." <br> <br> Afterwards, she shifts her attention back to Yuna, <br> <br> "Go for it, Yuna but bring backup just in case. After all, it can't be more dangerous than getting shot at on a daily basis." <br> <br> Reimu raises her right hand in response as well. <br> <br>

:'''{{#var:894|August Kohler (894)}} has posed:'''<br>August considers, briefly. But when Eryl says that they still occasionally have the nightmares, and that they might never fully recover, he glances at Yuna. And then, he raises his hand.<br><br>His left hand. "I'm sorry, but I'm not alright with you feeding yourself to the abomination. I'm not going to let that happen."<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:1107|Jonathan Joestar (1107)}} has posed:'''<br>Jonathan supposed Kirkou brought up a fair enough point. Yuna however, surprised him. It never ceased to amaze him how many women in the multiverse were so..strong. Not just physically but, strong in character. "I'd offer to go in your stead, but there are things in my mind that may be..detrimental to nurturing. I cannot put to words how much strength such conviction shows, Miss."<br><br>Jonathan looks, somewhat uncomfortably, in Rhapsody's direction. "If it's only her mind, then it might be possible that I know of a man who could heal her. I cannot say for sure. I lost contact with him when my world joined with the multiverse, but doubtlessly, he still lives. His name is Tonpetti, and if anyone could accomplish such a feat that I could think of, it would be him."<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Jonathan raises his right hand, when the vote is called for. "Indeed, this is a coin toss. But at the very least, there is the chance that no one has to die for us to achieve a desirable result. That alone makes it worth my vote."<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:325|Rhapsody (325)}} has posed:'''<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;There's a lot of hesitation from Rhapsody as the vote is called. Still, she suggested the how, not the who, and as a result she slowly raises her right hand. "As long as we can control the encounter, the where, the when, the how, it's our best shot to give the Iris a chance. One chance. If it goes well, then so be it. If not.." she looks toward August, "Then I'll be in agreement with Mr. Kohler."<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:127|Kirikou (127)}} has posed:'''<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Looking between August and Yuna, Kirikou figures this is the moment of choice. He approves of ruthlessness. When it comes to a major threat, and the Warp Iris is definitely one of those, then anything less than ruthlessness is a bad idea.<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;That ruthlessness, however, means it's okay for him to sacrifice Yuna if need be. She's volunteering, and she's made it clear she'd never stand for destroying the thing otherwise. He raises his right hand. "One chance." he agrees. It seems worth the risk, to settle matters if nothing else. "And all efforts to the gutsy lady's protection and recovery, I guess. But she has to agree too, that if she can't reach it and demonstrate that it's willing to not be a danger, that's it. She won't continue to stand in the way of what's gotta be done if she fails here."<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:894|August Kohler (894)}} has posed:'''<br>August just frowns, sharply. "Are you all out of your goddamn minds? You're willing to risk her life in order to save this damn thing? Jesus christ, you're all insane." He rises from his chair, but he doesn't leave. He just stares at all of them, disappointed in those he knows, and plenty of scowls are directed at Eryl.<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:7|Kotone Yamakawa (7)}} has posed:'''<br>Things are over her heead as people start to debate about it. She takes a deep breath thought she'snot in her own element here there's some serious things they have to think about it and the menton of there being people inside it? One word comes to Kotone's mind Annu. She physically recoils when she thinks of that even being a possiblity. She looks to Rhapsody andnods. "Also a place of no habitation by beings like ourselves if it wishes to learn it would need the time to do so in such an enviorment." <br><br> Kotone is scared but denying existnace because of what it is? The biggest point comes down to Kirikou's though CAN it learn?<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:385|Yuna Kagurazaka (385)}} has posed:'''<br>Of course Yuna raises her right hand. She can't offer herself up and then vote against the possibility, can she?<br><br>"I know the risks involved, and there are possibilities that scare me worse than just having my mind rummaged through like fanboys in my underwear drawer," she says - possibly an attempt at a joke? "If Loci Iris just goes through my memories as a whole instead of focusing on what I want her to learn, she's going to learn things about me that I've been loathe to tell anyone else about, even my closest friends. I'm no stranger to nightmares as it is ... I'll take my chances."<br><br>"Just the same, Yuna," Elner speaks up, "we need a way to pull you out in a hurry. Initiating your transformation and manifesting the Light Suit might cut the connection, and I *will* be ready to do that for your well-being, but there should indeed be other failsafes."<br><br>Yuna nods to the little robo-faerie, "Yeah, no argument there .... and yes. It's ... if absorbing my knowledge of friendship and love doesn't persuade the Warp Iris to avoid hurting people ... even if I'm *not* crippled by the experience, I'll turn what power I have towards helping destroy it. By that point, if I'm capable of knowing anything, I should - hopefully - know whether the lesson worked or not."<br><br>Her gaze shifts to August, her expression approximately half wistful, half rueful. "This is my *job,* August. I'm not called the Savior of Light because it looks nifty on a business card, y'know? ... But yeah, I'm a little insane, probably. You're not the first to suggest it."<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:562|Eryl Fairfax (562)}} has posed:'''<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Eryl looks around the table at all the raised right hands. "The motion carries, with one dissenting vote." He gives August an apologetic look, before moving on to the next topic. "Now, many here have made it clear that they will fight to kill Loci Iris if they pass up on this chance. The question here is;" He nods in Reimu's direction, acknowledging her earlier point, "How do we fight a creature of this nature?"<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;He circles a finger, and more holoscreens show up. They display the tentacles of Loci Iris that came under attack, as well as the artefact that somehow called it. "As we saw last time, attacking what could reach into our Multiverse did not accomplish much. That may mean we have to take the fight into its own plane. However, it seems to be an aborted universe. This could imply many things. Physics may work differently. The four fundamental forces of nature that we know of might not even exist there. How do we manage to win such a battle?"<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;He gestures again at the artefact. "The alternative is sealing it away, again a possibly mentioned previously. But how? It is unclear as to what rituals might bind this being..."<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:127|Kirikou (127)}} has posed:'''<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;At that question, Kirikou shrugs. "I got no idea there, man." he says, slouching now that the tough part's done. "If strong soul, strong mind and strong body can't beat this thing, you'll probably have to ask the people who've fought it before. I'm willing to help however I can, but really I'm just the guy who punches things until they explode."<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:894|August Kohler (894)}} has posed:'''<br>August remains standing. It's super clear he doesn't accept this, but if he's gonna do anything about it...he's not going to say so. "We set it on fire, and this time, hopefully not taze the guy trying to kill it. If it's on your barren world again, we could drop a nuke on it. Do the Paladins have nukes?" It's not clear if he's being serious or not, but he's pretty clearly unhappy. "If we seal it, I have no clue there. I don't seal things."<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:972|Reimu Hakurei (972)}} has posed:'''<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Afterwards, she walks directly over to August. As her sandels clack against the floor, she answers in a rather firm tone, <br> <br> "We're going to be right there providing back up in case anything goes wrong." <br> <br> Afterwards, she directs her attention back to Eryl for a moment, <br> <br> "I'm capable of sealing Youkai into small containers so if we have enough sealing specialists, maybe we can seal it into an empty section of the multiverse or just make a barrier around it. The keyword in this is maybe since I haven't sealed away anything of that magnitude but I'm in charge of the barrier that separates the rest of Gensokyo from the rest of my universe's outside world so it might be possible. However, it will be difficult." <br> <br> As she looks up at August, she continues, <br> <br> "Do you want to talk about this with me outside or blow off some stress outside instead?" <br> <br>

:'''{{#var:325|Rhapsody (325)}} has posed:'''<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;This is something a bit outside of the Izzet League's field of expertise. When Rhapsody speaks again, it is more reserved, even somber. "I wish I had something to offer for fighting this thing, but the Izzet are hardly law enforcement or jailers in Ravnica. The only thing I have encountered that is even remotely similar was the Ravnican Rift but.. what was sacrificed to seal that we don't have any more of."<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:385|Yuna Kagurazaka (385)}} has posed:'''<br>Yuna sinks back into her seat, exhaling deeply as Eryl moves on to the next point on the agenda. How *do* you fight an eldritch abomination from outside your known reality? Or, alternatively, how do you seal it?<br><br>"As far as fighting it goes, El-Line might be my best option," Yuna says after a long moment of consideration and listening. "If El-Line's not feasible, I guess I just use my on-foot firepower, assuming I'm in any shape to do so. The best I can really do is help weaken it enough for others to try sealing it away ..."<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:1107|Jonathan Joestar (1107)}} has posed:'''<br>"I frankly, have no idea."<br><br>Jonathan is honest about it, at least. "With so little known about it, there's no way to know what works and what doesn't. It's possible that Hamon could have an effect on it, but there's no telling for sure."<br><br>The large man rubs the back of his neck, face scrunching in deep thought. "Actually battling something like that is entirely out of my league, but none the less, if it comes down to that, I won't turn my back."<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:7|Kotone Yamakawa (7)}} has posed:'''<br>Kotone Yamakawa has had some minor experiance with horrors well the minions of one. The Flith comes to mind as she thinks she can only help hold the line against such things. She thinks what owudl be needed?This is very much out of her way againa nd she pauses for a moment about sealing. <br><br> "Could not the madness of isolation when sealed cause some of the things Inga's visions fortold could happen?"<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:972|Reimu Hakurei (972)}} has posed:'''<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; From there, Reimu turned around and groaned, <br> <br> "I honestly didn't think of that until you just mentioned it. Maybe sealing it away might be a bad idea after all."<br> <br>

:'''{{#var:562|Eryl Fairfax (562)}} has posed:'''<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Eryl looks a little disheartened. Thankfully, Reimu is here to salvage the sealing theory at least. "Then we shall put as much stock into that plan as humanly possible. I'll have a team investigate the artefact for clues, but getting close may trigger it again, so I can promise little." But then the possibility of madness caused by isolation comes up. "Hmm... if possible, we should consider a one-way seal. So that we might be able to offer social interaction without Loci Iris' influence seeping out."<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;And that... seems to be the end of it. "Very well. I'll not take up any more time of yours than necessary. We'll leave it at that. Once we're ready to put the plan into action, we'll spread the word. Thank you all for coming, this was more productive than expected." He stands and bows to the table. The mysterious onlookers just disconnect the video call without a word.<br> <br>
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